Shooting off a Bipod on a Concrete Bench

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by MMH, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. MMH

    MMH

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    I am trying to shoot my 308 off a Harris bipod an a concrete bench and not having good results.

    I use a wrap around grip & pull the rifle back hard into the shoulder. My left hand is between the small sand bag & stock to adjust the elevation. So, I guess that the rifle is in 'free recoil' since I am not pulling down on the foregrip.

    My groups are around 1.75 moa for 5 shots. I usually have a flier as the 4 shot groups are at 1 moa. I the rifle is capable of .75 moa, but I am not getting it. As a comparison, when I shoot my AR15, I am consistenly under .75 moa shooting in a similar fashion.

    Should I grip the foregrip with my left hand to eliminate the free recoil?
     
  2. watercam

    watercam Gold $$ Contributor

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    Assuming that your bi-pod is mounted so that the legs rotate forward when folding them, push forward just enough to pre-load (as in removing any slop) the legs. If not they may be jumping upwards a bit with each round and the rotation of the bullet leaving the barrel will add some lateral movement as well.
    None of that excess movement will be repeatable either.
    If the bench is short enough you could C-clamp a 2x4 across the front of the bi-pod feet and push into that to gain consistency.
     
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  3. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0

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    Free recoiling off a front rest works great. Hard to duplicate shots w/o loading a bipod. Pulling it back into your shoulder a recipe for failure. The suggestion of clamping a board on the bench is solid advice.
     
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  4. Uthink Uknow

    Uthink Uknow Gold $$ Contributor

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    If you are pulling back hard into your shoulder, you are not shooting free recoil. You have to do what the rifle likes. Evidently, it doesn't like being pulled back into your shoulder. Try shooting with your shoulder barely touching the butt plate and with only a light grip on the pistol grip and trigger. Are these factory loads? What sort of rifle are you using? What were your groups like before the bi-pod or with a front rest/sandbags under the fore arm?
     
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  5. Had2muchofForums

    Had2muchofForums

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    Most likely, there are a few things causing your undesirable results. When troubleshooting always start with the fundamentals of marksmanship; are you executing each correctly? How is your follow through and sight alignment? Body position and breathing consistent shot-to-shot?

    I sometimes think even the recoil and noise of a .308 can be intimidating on a subconscious level. This can result in our bodies accomodating or compensating; often the results are undesirable or inconsistent.

    Ok, this is going to sound weird, but give it a shot before disregarding. Try shooting with your eyes closed. Well, sort of. Line up your body square to your target. Place the rifle perpendicular to your body. The rifle should be snug, but not tight. If you can see your heart beating through the scope, it's too tight against your body.

    When you think you have a solid position, simulate recoil. Does the rifle move straight back in the bags or does it move to one side?

    Is your rear bag straight? When you grip it (not sure what type of rear bag so just assuming it a squeeze type) does it turn slightly to one side--thus setting the rifle up to move in a direction other than straight back on recoil.

    Now get your scope on target, close your eyes, take two full breaths (inhale-exhale). This will take your eyes out of the equation and keep them from cheating and allowing muscling of the rifle into position. With your eyes open, it's too easy to make minor unconscious adjustments to keep the crosshairs on target.

    Open your eyes. Where are your cross hairs? Have they moved? If so, realign and repeat. If your sight alignment is correct, your crosshairs will remain exactly on target after opening.

    Now that your position is correct, it's time to actually shoot with your eyes closed. Yippee!! Repeat the step above. Insure your sight alignment is perfect. Now close your eyes and take two more breaths; this time take the shot at the bottom of your breathig cycle. Focus on perfect follow through. Keep your finger on the trigger. It should be pulled straigt back--imagine a point straight behind the trigger--where your finger, the trigger, and that point all line up in a straight line. Pull your finger to that point, letting it break the trigger as you go. Keep your finger on the trigger all the way through the recoil impulse.

    Now open your eyes again. Where have the crosshairs moved? Are they still on target? Right of target? Left? Where is the rear sandbag, did it shift to one side?

    Shoot a five shot group at 100 yards using this method. Try to learn something from each shot and practice making each shot perfect. Also, let the group size be the last thing in your mind...your focus in on building correct fundamentals. The accuracy/precision will come.



    I relate everything to golf since that is the first sport I really learned. My Dad told me the first day, a correct swing should feel weird and wrong because I've never done it before. He further taught me to not worry about where my ball went--instead focus on doing certain things correctly. And once I was able to put a few things together correctly, my ball would just start to go straight. Same thing with shooting. Build the fundamentals and the rest will fall into place.

    Good Luck

    PS--or you could always install a muzzle brake and skip learning a lot of stuff :);):Do_O
     
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  6. Uthink Uknow

    Uthink Uknow Gold $$ Contributor

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    Good advise there, Patrick.
     
  7. dsculley

    dsculley

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    Fold a towel and place it on top of the concrete bench for padding. Place your bi-pod feet on the towel. You get a lot of hop with a bi-pod on something as solid as concrete.
     
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  8. Iowa Fox

    Iowa Fox Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thats what I do and for that very same reason
     
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  9. rammac

    rammac

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    I think that you might have two issues;

    1. As mentioned, always have something soft between the rifle and the bench (or any other rest). Even the rubber feet of your bipod are too hard, I use a scrap of carpet under my bipod feet.
    2. You might have loose action screws. Consistently getting a single flyer in a 5 round group can be caused by creeping contact between the action screws and the stock. Make sure that the screws have clearance (between the screw and the stock) and that they are tight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  10. urbanrifleman

    urbanrifleman Site $$ Sponsor

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  11. Midnightmedic

    Midnightmedic Silver $$ Contributor

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    Go to your local hardware store and by two white 3/4" pvc end caps and place them over the rubber feet. Cost about a $1.50. A small piece of carpet or better yet a delrin cutting board between the cement and feet will keep the bipod from hopping if you want to shoot free recoil instead of pre-loading bipod.
     
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  12. 1bamashooter

    1bamashooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Carpet or rubber conveyor belt under your bipod
     
  13. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

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    Harris bipod needs to be "loaded " slightly to remove the slack in the mechanism, this is achieved by having a means for the feet to grip the surface. I use Hawk Hill claw feet, even on concrete, but you could use carpet or a rail in front as a stop. VERY IMPORTANT then push the rifle forward using your shoulder; at this point the butt should be comfortably in shoulder pocket and its weight fully supported with no other effort (no contact with hands). With this degree of loading you do not need to pull back on the grip, which induces instability upon recoil.

    You say your left hand is between the bag and the stock? You need a proper bag height that supports the butt in a stable manner. Otherwise upon recoil the butt will drop, making the muzzle jump or rise in an inconsistent manner.
     
  14. MMH

    MMH

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    Good advise I will try this, but it will take me some time to learn...

    Also, just as many have suggested, I will get something soft to put the feet on.
     
  15. MMH

    MMH

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    I have always used my left hand to squeeze the bag or pinch my thumb & index under the stock to control elevation. Are you saying that the rear bag should be squeezed in such a manner that even w/o the left hand by it that the elevation is perfectly on the target?
     
  16. mr.big

    mr.big

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    +1 ,, when shooting off a bipod you really need to be loading the bipod with pressure from your shoulder that is gonna slide the rifle forward on slick concrete,,,if you cant get something clamped to the bench you would be better off shooting off the ground where you can load the bipod,,
    and you dont need to pull the rifle into your shoulder with your weak hand either,,the pressure from loading the bipod is plenty,,with enough practice you will be spotting your own shots in no time,,

    the last shooting mat I bought to shoot off the ground has flaps sown in to load the bipod against and keep it from sliding forward,,
     
  17. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

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    I'm not confident I'm understanding you correctly so I posed as a question regarding your having skin between the bag and rifle. The degree to which the rear bag is squeezed, with good control upon recoil, is an art. For me, the more I squeeze the more likely the bag will settle upon recoil and I shoot high in an inconsistent manner. So I use a firm bag with firm support, and slide it along the tapered butt for elevation adjustment.

    Another way to look at this is if you positioned the rifle on the bipod and rear bag with no human contact, only pulling the trigger, the rifle would recoil straight back; perhaps a little muzzle movement to the side due to barrel torque with heavy bullets. Its the uneven stress the human exerts that causes the lack of control.
     
  18. K22

    K22

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    Let me say from the start I'm not bipod shooter let alone an expert.

    One of my shooting buddies a few years ago thought it would be fun to have some informal competition shooting from the bench with bipod during the winter month using a 308, no rear bag at 100 yards and a 50 ft pistol target for scoring, 5 shot strings. I had an old Harris bipod 9-13" I use to use shooting prone hunting ghogs many years ago before I converted to a shooting stick. Thought it might be fun so I opted in. It was fun because I never won. :(

    I struggled to shoot decent scores, often experiencing flyers. Not willing to give up I began experimenting and watching my buddy. My scores improved dramatically by using a carpet on the bench and pre - loading the bipod as others have suggested. I also began holding the forearm which helped reduce jump. I won a few matches. :) My buddy lost interest. :p

    Like I said, I'm not a competitive rifle shooter or a bipod shooter just thought I'd share what worked for me.

    PS: Also used 125 grain bullets with reduced loads of H4895 which helped a lot too.
     
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  19. outasite`08

    outasite`08

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    I use a piece of rubber anti-carpet skid and preload the bipod.No problems with a .308.If you shop at Walmart they have small round pieces that work fine,or do what I did and roll back a rug at the house and and cut a piece.Just don`t tell the wife.
     
  20. Hammer47

    Hammer47 I suffer fools poorly. Silver $$ Contributor

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    Watched a guy place the feet of his bipod in an upside down flattop frisbee. Rubber legs stuck to the plastic frisbee but the whole contraption was free to slide on the concrete bench with little resistance. After thinking about it I see the wisdom in this approach. Btw, he shot very well in this fashion.
     
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