Ride the 308 or.....?

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Redxds, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. Redxds

    Redxds

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    Hey guys I'm a newbie here but have enough knowledge to think I'm dangerous ;D. But in all seriousness I do need your help. So here is my dilemma. A number of years ago I bought a Remington Varmint in 308 as a do it all rifle. I slapped a McMillian A3, adjusted my trigger down to a crisp 2.5 lbs and called it done (along with a MK IV 3.5 x 10 M3). With only around 1500 hundred rounds or so I can't get any decent groups any longer. I mean poor too. I've tried various ammo but I can't dial it back in consistently. Also, I'm VERY interested in getting into some small competitions after deer season. So with keeping with the spirit of having a precision/hunting rifle all rolled into one I only see a few options:

    1) Buy a single stage reloader to learn a new craft and make full use of what I've got? This would give me the option also of learning wind values of the 308 as well as use these bags of brass I've collected over the years.

    2) Screw a new Bartlien tube on in 6.5 Creedmoor at cost of $390ish + $270 for truing the boltface, with a cut and recessed crown. This should bring me back to sub MOA with factory ammo.

    Again both have pluses and minuses. I've been shooting for 33 years now and I really need some sound advice.

    Thanks,
    Red
     
  2. crowsnest2002

    crowsnest2002

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    1. I reload and love having the opportunity to make my rifle do anything I want it to. Varmints to whatever. Personally I love the 308, yeah I know there are better hot rods out there and they sure kick the pants off the 308 but for some reason the desire for it is still there. I traded a Rem varmint 243 in for a Savage f/tr 308 and am going to start f/tr in the spring. Really do whatever your gut tells ya, but I went away from the 308 and ended right back to it ;)
     
  3. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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  4. chkunz

    chkunz Gold $$ Contributor

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    I am not trying to talk you out of leaving the 308 but there will be more cost to support the new cartridge than just changing the barrel. You know this but add it up before you make the change to get the true cost.
     
  5. Cort

    Cort

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    I would expect closer to 3000 rounds down the tube before you began to lose accuracy. 308's usually make that mark unless the barrel has a carbon or copper problem. Also, some aggressive cleaning will cause a barrel to give up early. Are you using a bore guide and a quality, one piece cleaning rod?

    Do you have access to a bore scope so you can see what the bore looks like?

    What condition is the crown?

    Are the action screws tight?

    How about the scope screws?

    Do you have a different scope to try?

    Cort
     
  6. nosualc

    nosualc

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    My bet would be on a heavily fouled barrel.

    Find somebody with a borescope. Most smiths have one and will do it for you, probably for free or a small fee.

    -nosualc
     
  7. jonbearman

    jonbearman I live in new york state,how unfortunate ! Gold $$ Contributor

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    +1 on a heavily fouled bore with a good possibility of a heavy carbon ring as well.
     
  8. broncman

    broncman

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    I have a factory Remington 700 AAC-SD in 308. Most accurate factory rifle I have owned. But it fouls pretty fast! Accuracy comes right back after a good cleaning. Been threatening to rebarrel it to eliminate the fast fouling issue.

    Give it a good cleaning. Getting rid of the copper is easy, the carbon will take a little longer!
     
  9. nosualc

    nosualc

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    I have no idea what your barrel cleaning regime is, but try this:

    Buy a $10-$12 can of Wipe-Out Foam. Squirt foam from the chamber end until foam comes out the muzzle. Let it sit for a few hours in a rest or cradle with the muzzle angled slightly down. Put some newspaper under the muzzle. After 3-4 hours, squirt it again, until fresh foam comes out the muzzle. Let it sit overnight. Letting it set lets the chemical do its job, and it will not hurt the barrel.

    In the morning if there's a big puddle of blue goo on the newspaper, your bore was copper fouled. If so, brush the bore with a nylon brush 10-12 times. Reapply foam, let it sit.

    Finish with patches of rubbing alcohol, and then clean patches.

    I'll bet you'll be amazed by what comes out of that barrel.

    -nosualc
     
  10. Redxds

    Redxds

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    I've considered the fouling, but I dismissed it to the moderate round count. I'll give it a good cleaning and see what comes of it. I too love the 308 as in its my favorite cal. But I've been eyeballing the .260 and 6.5 for quite some time. Perhaps for now I'll see what comes from the cleaning and then get her scoped (yes I have a good one piece Dewey rod). If everything tightens up I'll stay the path and begin reloading until I shoot the barrel out.
     
  11. Erik Cortina

    Erik Cortina Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain Silver $$ Contributor

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    For $270 you better get a full action blueprint.

    You need to start reloading regardless of which route you go on the barrel and cartridge. If you can afford to do both you will be way ahead as you will learn to reload for what potentially should be an accurate gun with the new barrel.
     
  12. Jay Christopherson

    Jay Christopherson Administrator

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    I think you are making a pretty big assumption with #2. I think going to handloads is a better plan and I can't imagine a .308 is shot out at 1500 rounds.
     
  13. tipper999

    tipper999

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    Buy Savage QC , For $270 you better get a full action blueprint bastard action that will need more money & time at the gunsmith shop $3,000.00 + + + later
     
  14. Road_Clam

    Road_Clam

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    +1 on venturing into reloading. I started with a Bushmaster AR-15 Varmint shooting cheap factory ammo, then what hooked me into reloading was buying 100 rounds of Black Hills 69 gr match and talk about going from 3moa to sub moa in four pulls of the trigger ! Wow, now I realized the true advantage of match quality ammo. Reloading is expensive to get into but allows you to shoot match quality ammo tuned specifically for YOUR rifle barrel at a sunbtantial cost savings. So you don't technically "save" money, but reloading allows you to shoot more and hone your precision skills by more trigger time. You will also gain a deep understanding of ballistics, especially from the experts here on the forum !
     
  15. Albany Mountain

    Albany Mountain Silver $$ Contributor

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    If you started reloading versus store bought ammo, you will find that you will either have enough $$$$$ to shoot more or to spend on rifle accurizing. Slapping a stock on is not glass bedding, bore condition and crowns can be enhanced, and you still have $$$$$ left over for more ammo.
     
  16. Redxds

    Redxds

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    Thanks guys all good advice and I appreciate it. I'll go ahead and research which dies I should look for on a single stage. I'll also take the advice on a solid cleaning of the bore and get it scoped. As for the action it's been bedded a number of years ago. Truthfully, I think in the back of my head I really wanted to try the 6.5 Creedmoor. But in all fairness I know I've got plenty of life left in this barrel. And I still love the 308.

    Again thanks everyone
    Red
     
  17. nosualc

    nosualc

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    Then you get a second rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. :)

    -nosualc
     
  18. Road_Clam

    Road_Clam

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    When I was looking to step up from my Bushmaster AR I was faced with the same dilemma "which caliber ?" I needed a capable rifle to take me to 600 yards for the most part. A major factor in my situation was I wanted a practical caliber. I wanted plentifull brass. After a month of asking experts and doing my research I settled on a Rem 700 Varmint .308 . The 6 - 6.5's are superior in ballistics, BUT they are commonly known as "barrel burners". They are a caliber for the competitive expert marksmen , I am just a novice schmuck recreational shooter who want's to get better LOL. I am not worthy of a 6-6.5mm cartridge (yet ;) ), and finding 6mm brass can be a challenge and gets expensive. I have about 500 rounds of once fired NATO LC brass that I bought once fired for cheap money. I load on the lighter side so i'm anticipating a barrel life of about 5000+ rounds ? I also took .30 cal one step further and am in the process a low budget .300WM clone to my .308 for some real fps OOMPH ! So take my experience as opinion, and make your best decision !
     
  19. hogan

    hogan

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    Factory barrel?

    Rem 700 VS did shoot/group well with consistency, now it don't? Talking 5 shot groups consistently under .6 at 100yds and under an inch at 200.... No longer producing those results?

    Lots of variables: Action screw tension, scope mount system, lots of crap in the barrel (prev mentioned). Might be your scope. Have you swapped to a known, proven scope?

    I would buy a jug of Barnes CR-10 and some carburetor cleaner and a cheap brush or two and scrub out the barrel. Like spend an hour or two on it. Clean till you get no more blue patches, then clean again. Use the CR-10 on the brush as well. Every 20mins clean the brush and patch out the barrel using flannel patches well-soaked in carb cleaner. Spray can stuff. I use an eye dropper bottle to apply and a small jar w/lid to clean brushes. No mess, or minimally so that way.

    Barrel is probably fine; well, okay for what it is. If your rifle is mid-90s to 2007ish, the barrels were very decent.

    Might want to clean your bolt, and inspect the boltface for debris trapped under the extractor. How's the crown look? Anything "new" you did to the rifle just before the accuracy went South?

    A good cleaning will mean you need to re-do the break-in process before you expect primo results Maybe clean every 5rds to remove fouling for the first 20rds, so you get an even layering of gilding metal down the tube.
     
  20. BCoates

    BCoates

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    If you have the time and the money, I would suggest getting reloading equipment. If you don't have time to reload, I would suggest thoroughly cleaning the barrel first and see if your results improve. If not, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a great cartridge choice. I have guns in both cartridges and reload for both, but the factory 140 AMAX 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is very good and works for target and thin skinned game hunting.
     

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