QuickLOAD says the load is too hot

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by uncle-buck, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:28 AM.

  1. uncle-buck

    uncle-buck

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    Am a new user of QuickLOAD.

    Entered data for Sierra's accuracy load for the 69 gr. Match King bullet in .223 Rem.: 26.5 gr. of N540. Software says "DO NOT USE THIS LOAD!"

    I've been using 26.0 gr. of N540 in my rifle with good results and no signs of excessive pressure.

    Would someone please clarify the apparent discrepancy. Thanks
     
  2. JRS

    JRS Gold $$ Contributor

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    QuickLoad is a guide line. Much like loading data in books, it's conservative.
     
  3. jds holler

    jds holler Gold $$ Contributor

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    I imagine that the Sierra Accuracy Load was probably worked up and tested in an actual pressure testing barrel in the "real world", but it happens to exceed certain parameters that Quickloads uses as criteria for their max loads. jd
     
  4. Uncle Ed

    Uncle Ed

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    Quickload defaults to the lowest case capacity of 28.0 grains of H2O for the .223/5.56. And my Lake City 5.56 cases have 30.6 case capacity. This can change the chamber pressure 6,000 psi with the same charge of powder.

    Below find your case and change the case capacity in Quickload. Quickload tells you to get the case capacity of a "fired" case from your rifle. But as you can see most cases fall into the 30 + - of H2O capacity.

    [​IMG]

    You also you need a chronograph and then change the burn rate in Quickload until the velocities match. This will give you the most accurate chamber pressure estimates out of Quickload.
     
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  5. rammac

    rammac

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    Garbage in/ garbage out. I've used QuickLoad for years and the problem most new users have is that they are unaware of how important it is to adjust all the cartridge data. You need to measure the case volume for the cases that you are using, you need to measure the bullet lengths of the lot of bullets you are using, you need to verify the predicted muzzle velocity against the average chronographed velocity (corrected for distance from the muzzle) for your loads. Then you can still have to make adjustments to the burn rate (Ba value), shot start pressure, and a couple of other parameters. With experience you can come up with valid predictions for changes in your loads.
     
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  6. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Gold $$ Contributor

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    sounds like a bunch of variables to me my rifle and brass tell me all i need to know. of course i am no computer geek.
     
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  7. mikecr

    mikecr

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    For me it's not a problem until it actually is.
    I use QL, but work up to find MyMax load, which is a local point of 'problem pressure'.
     
  8. rammac

    rammac

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    QuickLoad isn't for everybody, normally it's the guy that always has to know "why" that uses it but I understand why the average shooter doesn't want to invest the time or effort in how to use it. But for those that are willing to put in the extra effort to learn the software there can be interesting surprises. I found that some of my accuracy loads that I thought were optimized were actually less than desirable. Yes, those loads produced very nice groups but I found things that I didn't like, for example; all of the powder was being burnt long before the bullet left the muzzle which reduces the accuracy of a load and is not efficient. I've found that loads produced the max pressure point beyond the thickest part of the barrel's profile. I've found other issues that simply didn't make for the safest and best loads. I've been working on a 30-06 load for a rifle that just wouldn't shoot. Out of the box the rifle produced 100 groups of over 2 inches with good factory loads, my hand loads were even worse. After recognizing a few factors in QuickLoad that are usually associated with an optimized load, I got 100 yard 5 round groups of under 0.5". The software helped me identify issues with the mechanics of the rifle and things that were due to the ammunition. In the end, the software simply helps me develop high quality loads quicker and with less expense then I could accomplish otherwise.
     
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  9. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

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    I've found that if you measure case capacity, and use carefully measured bullet dimensions (seating depth!), then QuickLOAD gives a pretty good idea of max load and velocity even with the powder data defaults. Am I going to trust it without test? Hell no. But I've found it to be more reliable than a reloading manual, especially if you are loading something off the beaten path (try loading F TR rounds by the book. I'm not even sure some of the bullets will have any bearing surface left in the neck at SAAMI overall length.

    I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with QuickLOAD comes from people expecting too much from it. It's basically an alternative to a reloading manual - another sanity check, not some sort of sciency magic. Once you start tweaking numbers you can't measure, all bets are off.
     
  10. Mozella

    Mozella

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    I agree. I've also been using it for years and it does indeed take some time and study to get the best out of Quickload. Those unwilling to do what it takes to get reliable results, should NOT use Quickload to approach maximum charge weights. But if you enter correct data for things you can measure, like bullet weight, REAL barrel length, case capacity, seating depth, and velocity you then have a starting place to start tweaking things like burn rate to fine tune both your loads and QL so that they're both on the same page.

    After becoming well acquanted with QL, I find that when I approach their max recommended charge weights, my brass starts showing the beginnings of over preasure signs. In other words, I think QL is telling me something pretty close to the truth. But my confidence didn't come until after I had done my homework. Now; however, I feel comfortable tweaking QL load data for my usual calibers when the temperature changes, to state one example. Or, if I'm testing a new bullet, I have the confidence to make batches of test ammo of increasing charge weights without loading up a bunch of rounds which turn out to be WAY out of bounds. In other words, I don't have to stop half way through a test session, go home, and pull bullets out of half the rounds because my estimated charge weight range was excessively high or low.

    Like any other tool, QL takes a while to get used to.
     
  11. LVLAaron

    LVLAaron Silver $$ Contributor

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    This is the best answer. You have to measure the H20 for your particular cases. My batch of 223 brass is almost 32 grains! HUGE difference between the default of 28.

    Also be sure you enter your cartridge lengths, as this is another huge factor.

    I adjust these two settings for each load I work up in quickload and have found the results to be VERY accurate.
     
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  12. mikecr

    mikecr

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    Cartridge length means nothing to internal ballistics. What matters is area of bullet seated to reduce capacity.
    Seated bearing. One of many things unaccounted for in reloading manuals.

    Committed QL users learn more about reloading in general. They get better & better to the point of PLANNING outcomes.
    What everyone else does; buying guns and discovering/adjusting to what they have,, that's not planning.
     
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  13. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

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    You know this, but just to clarify for those who don't - QuickLOAD calculates the internal case volume based on bullet geometry and cartridge length. The length doesn't matter directly, but that's the number you input into QuickLOAD, which in turn calculates the numbers that do matter.
     
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  14. LVLAaron

    LVLAaron Silver $$ Contributor

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    The literal measurement you put into quickload is labeled "CARTRIDGE LENGTH"
     
  15. mikecr

    mikecr

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    Most direct route to getting screwy results is to allow QL to figure out your inputs.
    I just tell it directly what matters and check to make sure it doesn't have bad default inputs affecting my results.
    I pick a similar bullet & tell it shank(bearing) seating depth. Area/other attributes auto adjust with that. Cartridge length matters not, it doesn't even have to be the same cartridge. Just make sure overflow case capacity is correct as measured. Make sure the bullet diameter input is actually correct, same with grove caliber. Watch & follow up on cross sectional bore area with actual barrel length entered. Their test barrels are not yours. Set weighting factor and starting pressure as well. After you've calibrated some powder files, and using cut rifled barrels, you damn sure can predict & right on the money.

    Much like external ballistic software, I believe people do not assign enough credit to QL's potentials. With both areas, it's really a matter of understanding, and that always takes effort.
     
  16. Uncle Ed

    Uncle Ed

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    There are so many variations in firearms and the components used in reloading for any software program to give accurate outputs.

    This is why you tweak the powder burn rate to calibrate Quickload to your chronograph.

    You also get varying results in the reloading manuals between pressure test barrels at minimum SAAMI dimension and pressures measured with a strain gauge.

    At best Quickload gives ball park chamber pressure and velocity estimates if not calibrated with a chronograph.

    If you ever used the pre-computer age Powley Pocket computer it also gave you estimates on powder and velocity. But your rifle still tells you what it likes the best and not a computer program.
     
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  17. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

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    This is because Quickload neither needs nor wants to have any more preset input files than necessary. It is far easier for the program to use COAL as an input and offer a pull-down menu with a wide variety of bullet files that contain a factory preset bullet OAL value. The bullet files in QL do not utilize direct ogive, bearing surface length, or nose length dimensions, being more concerned on sectional density and the boattail dimensions.

    Along the same line, powder burn rates are dependent on pressure/volume and can change quite a bit depending on the specific cartridge used (i.e. case volume) or due to Lot to Lot variance. The QL burn rate factor (Ba) presets alone would require literally millions of different values to cover even a small fraction of the various cartridges and pressures commonly encountered by reloaders. For that reason, QuickLoad uses a single temperature-dependent variable Ba value for any given powder. However, it does allow the user to change this value and therefore "calibrate" the program to their specific setup.

    One solution to the issue of using COAL as the QL input is actually rather simple. At a bare minimum, you need to sort bullets by length and enter a correct value for bullet OAL, rather than use the preset value from the pull-down menu. This won't necessarily correct other minor dimensional variance such as bullet BTO or in the boattail itself, but they are unlikely to have an affect worth worrying about. QL is first and foremost a prediction program, and therefore used as an aid to the reloading process, not a method for directly measuring pressure, velocity, etc. Of course you want the inputs to be as good as they possibly can, especially where direct measurements are possible such as with case length, case volume, powder weight, temperature, etc. If you know the OAL of the bullets you are using, it is simple enough to input the correct value, which will then automatically adjust shank depth and usable case volume values.

    I sort bullets into length groups of .0015" for pointing purposes anyhow, so I already know the average OAL of any specific length group. It's more than close enough for most purposes that it allows the program to utilize COAL and still come up with reasonable prediction values. Slight variance in other bullet dimensions such as BTO will not have an appreciable affect on the output as long as you input the actual bullet OAL, which might differ by as much as .010" to .015" (or more) from the factory preset value, depending on the specific Lot of bullets..
     
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  18. Uncle Ed

    Uncle Ed

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    Quickload has two different loading data for the .223 and 5.56 and the difference is throat length.

    Below if you look at "G" throat diameter and "N" freebore length you can see the all variables in chambers.

    My Savage bolt action with a 1in9 twist has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles. So you can see that you need a chronograph and adjust the burn rate and possibly fine tune with the bullet weight.

    [​IMG]
    Below how to fine tune Quickload in pdf format.


    Adjusting the Powder Burn rate Factor and the Bullet Weight to Help Match
    QL to Range Chronograph Data:
    http://www.the-long-family.com/Tuning QL to achieve best results.pdf
     
  19. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

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    Quickload? We don't need no stinking quickload .
     
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