Quick Loads Data for 6.5 Creedmoor...? Need Full Case Powders !!!!

Discussion in 'Big Stuff -- 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 Cal' started by daniel brothers, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. daniel brothers

    daniel brothers

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    I'm looking for a powder that fills the 6.5 case. Right now I'm using 42.5 gr of RL 17 in Hornady Brass with 140 SST bullets... which shoots dime to nickle groups at an average of 2850 fps from my Savage 12 FV, 26" varmint barrel. It will shoot better when I get the seating depth testing worked out. I like to shoot the slowest powder that fills the case, that still gives me the desired speed and accuracy. I have not measured the powder capacity, but it looks like it's probably a 90 % fill. Does anyone have quickloads or a recommended powder that will fill it more????? thanks...Dan
     
  2. 243winxb

    243winxb

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    Go to the Hodgdon website. Look for maximum loads with a "C" for compressed loads.
     
  3. daniel brothers

    daniel brothers

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    Thanks... I looked there... but their speeds where too low... 2736 fps was their max.
     
  4. Zero333

    Zero333 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Unfortunately my QL version doesn't have the latest and greatest powders. I need to get an update. But hope this helps.
    These are charge weights that generate 60,000 psi or 107% case fill ( whichever is reached first). Top to bottom is powders that will give best velocity to lowest velocity.

    Just look at the stuff that's 95 to 107 % case fill.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
    Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
    Useable Case Capaci: 46.383 grain H2O = 3.012 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
    Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Norma MRP 106.7 47.6 3.09 2960 99.7 60000 10017 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 70 99.5 45.3 2.94 2925 100.0 60000 9285 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 60 96.6 43.3 2.81 2923 100.0 60000 8843 1.245 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 SSC 106.5 46.8 3.03 2917 97.8 60000 9801 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N560 107.0 46.7 3.03 2904 97.1 57407 10077 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho 17 95.6 42.9 2.78 2902 100.0 60000 8786 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 95.6 42.9 2.78 2902 100.0 60000 8786 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2213 107.0 46.2 3.00 2890 97.5 59332 9690 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate MAGPRO 107.0 48.6 3.15 2881 95.4 56435 10071 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA15 107.0 46.2 3.00 2878 98.6 56783 9727 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-22 107.0 46.2 3.00 2878 98.6 56783 9727 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5/NP approximation 107.0 46.2 3.00 2878 98.6 56783 9727 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 511 97.1 44.2 2.87 2874 99.9 60000 9060 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-19 104.9 44.8 2.91 2874 98.8 60000 9322 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 100.3 44.3 2.87 2872 99.9 60000 9047 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 104.1 44.3 2.87 2871 98.7 60000 9249 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 102.5 43.6 2.82 2870 100.0 60000 8375 1.268 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 62 97.8 43.8 2.84 2869 100.0 60000 8722 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 105.6 45.2 2.93 2867 98.8 60000 9253 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 94.7 42.8 2.77 2866 99.7 60000 9044 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 94.7 42.8 2.77 2866 99.7 60000 9044 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Magnum 107.0 49.8 3.23 2860 99.0 57586 9324 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 96.9 42.3 2.74 2851 100.0 60000 8757 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 99.8 42.2 2.74 2851 100.0 60000 8634 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 99.8 42.2 2.74 2850 100.0 60000 8632 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350 99.2 42.4 2.75 2848 100.0 60000 8599 1.288 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 99.3 43.8 2.84 2845 98.6 60000 9053 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA4 102.5 43.8 2.84 2845 98.6 60000 9053 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 approximation 102.5 43.8 2.84 2845 98.6 60000 9053 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 105.9 45.8 2.97 2840 97.0 60000 9135 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S385 105.1 45.4 2.94 2838 99.3 60000 8905 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4831 104.8 42.9 2.78 2833 100.0 60000 8440 1.281 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 93.2 41.1 2.67 2827 100.0 60000 8296 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.1 43.5 2.82 2824 99.5 60000 8736 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester Supreme 780 103.3 46.6 3.02 2824 98.6 60000 8840 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 52 92.1 40.7 2.63 2823 100.0 60000 8229 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game 90.2 41.1 2.66 2820 100.0 60000 8200 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon CFE223 85.1 40.5 2.63 2819 100.0 60000 8183 1.274 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 89.7 38.4 2.49 2812 100.0 60000 8199 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R904 103.2 43.5 2.82 2811 97.7 60000 8792 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 102.5 42.4 2.75 2809 100.0 60000 7926 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S070 99.2 42.0 2.72 2807 99.7 60000 8574 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 107.0 48.8 3.16 2806 96.8 52067 9726 1.322
    Rottweil R905 107.0 45.4 2.94 2806 96.4 54856 9314 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 90.5 38.7 2.51 2806 100.0 60000 8172 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 90.5 38.7 2.51 2806 100.0 60000 8172 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 90.5 38.7 2.51 2806 100.0 60000 8172 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4350 101.9 42.6 2.76 2805 99.3 60000 8544 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4350 100.0 42.5 2.76 2804 99.3 60000 8527 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H380 91.9 40.2 2.60 2803 100.0 60000 8316 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 91.0 38.9 2.52 2802 100.0 60000 8110 1.284 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 517 107.0 48.8 3.16 2801 96.6 51772 9726 1.325
    Bofors RP15 107.0 45.3 2.93 2798 97.6 51789 9537 1.337
    Winchester WXR 107.0 45.3 2.93 2798 97.6 51789 9537 1.337
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 93.9 40.5 2.62 2796 99.7 60000 8297 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon BL-C2 85.6 39.9 2.59 2796 100.0 60000 8014 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 88.6 40.4 2.62 2795 100.0 60000 8222 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203 old 92.4 39.9 2.59 2794 100.0 60000 7994 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 92.4 39.9 2.59 2794 100.0 60000 7994 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 50 90.3 40.2 2.60 2790 100.0 60000 8126 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Wild Boar 86.0 39.3 2.55 2789 100.0 60000 7997 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 94.4 39.9 2.59 2788 100.0 60000 7918 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4320 92.5 38.9 2.52 2788 100.0 60000 7880 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 3100 107.0 45.8 2.96 2787 99.8 56665 8621 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
     
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  5. Shane Roya

    Shane Roya

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    From your speed I would guess you are loading to a COAL of 2.840" that is something that I need to know to get it right.
    Anyways if it is your length then you are at 93.7% fill and 56,823 psi Max pressure for 6.5 CM is 63,100 psi
    I will run numbers for you on RL26 it will give up to 106% fill without to much problem.
    You will note at same pressure as your load now RL26 gives 2955 fps.


    Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
    Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
    Useable Case Capaci: 46.933 grain H2O = 3.047 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.840 inch = 72.14 mm
    Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
    Powder : Alliant Reloder-26

    Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
    incremented in steps of 1.053% of nominal charge.
    CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

    Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
    % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

    -10.5 91 42.50 2561 2038 35888 9259 97.7 1.569
    -09.5 92 43.00 2594 2092 37248 9356 98.2 1.545
    -08.4 94 43.50 2627 2146 38666 9447 98.6 1.518
    -07.4 95 44.00 2661 2200 40146 9531 98.9 1.491
    -06.3 96 44.50 2694 2256 41690 9608 99.2 1.465
    -05.3 97 45.00 2727 2311 43304 9678 99.4 1.440
    -04.2 98 45.50 2760 2368 44988 9740 99.6 1.415
    -03.2 99 46.00 2793 2425 46749 9796 99.8 1.390
    -02.1 100 46.50 2826 2482 48591 9844 99.9 1.366
    -01.1 101 47.00 2858 2539 50516 9884 100.0 1.342
    +00.0 102 47.50 2891 2598 52531 9916 100.0 1.319
    +01.1 103 48.00 2923 2656 54643 9944 100.0 1.296 ! Near Maximum !
    +02.1 104 48.50 2955 2715 56850 9971 100.0 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
    +03.2 105 49.00 2987 2774 59173 9997 100.0 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
    +04.2 106 49.50 3019 2834 61603 10021 100.0 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
    +05.3 108 50.00 3051 2894 64156 10045 100.0 1.208 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

    Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
    Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
    +Ba 102 47.50 3031 2856 66810 9402 100.0 1.204 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
    Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
    -Ba 102 47.50 2675 2225 41146 10042 95.9 1.469
     
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  6. daniel brothers

    daniel brothers

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    Zero and Shane...WOW.... that is some GREAT INFORMATION.... exactly what I was looking for...thanks so much... I owe you one.

    Good call on the 2.840... you are correct on that. I may be changing that seating depth after more testing, but that's it for the moment.

    I also need to try that RL 26 as well.... thanks again Guys.
     
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  7. Zero333

    Zero333 Gold $$ Contributor

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    No problem. Anytime.

    Thanks Shane for the RL-26 comparison.

    Sharing QL data is something that takes 10 seconds out of my life. And it's effortless !!!
    It's not like you're asking us to help you move your parents grand piano LOL
     
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  8. Shane Roya

    Shane Roya

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    Your welcome, have fun and be safe.
    QL is a great tool for getting an idea on how they might work in your cartridge. I have shot the RL26 almost exclusively in my 2 6.5 CM's with a lot of different bullet weights and a few different Manufacturers. Most have been at finding a good load at the high end of the velocity range. I am also going to see if I can find a load at the lower end that will work well for 200 yard Egg Shoots.
    May even break down and try some RL16 for those loads. Who knows.
     
  9. GSPV

    GSPV A failure to plan is a plan for failure. Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don’t know much about QL.

    Would I be able to model a wildcat case and see what powders would give what fill at what pressure?

    Or could I use, say, the 7x30 Waters and model what powders would do what in terms of fill, pressure, and velocity...even if we really knew that that kind of pressure would blow a lever gun? (Mine is a bolt action wildcat with a little more capacity than the 7x30 Waters).

    Sorry to steal the thread. Just very curious.
     
  10. Zero333

    Zero333 Gold $$ Contributor

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    In Quickload you can adjust case volume capacity and case length but not the shoulder angle or taper of the case.

    For doing those extra things and more, you would need Quickload AND Quickdesign.

    You can download a free trial version of both...

    http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

    http://www.neconos.com/details3a.htm

    I don't have any experience with Quickdesign so I don't actually know if you have to have Quickload as well, but I would assume.
     
  11. GSPV

    GSPV A failure to plan is a plan for failure. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks, guys, I appreciate it.
     
  12. Grimstod

    Grimstod Machinist, Designer, and Shooter. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Max PSI on the creedmoor is 62,000. Max CIP is 63,100. They are difernet measuing systems.

    Lapuas 6.5x47 is 63,100 PSI. I see people dangerously mixing these numbers all the time.
     
  13. Shane Roya

    Shane Roya

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    Thank you for pointing that out, we always want to be safe. I will add the Lapua is also CIP 63,100 , QL uses Piezo CIP for both 6.5 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmoor and lists them both at 63,091 psi. The info I listed was QL data so I used their pressure reading to correspond to the data in chart.
    CIP is measured inside chamber with a hole drilled through the Chamber and case placing the transducer pick up inside and SAAMI measures from the outside of case with the hole only through the chamber placing transducer on outside of case wall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  14. ab_bentley

    ab_bentley I fix stuff, sometimes.... Silver $$ Contributor

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    Resized_20171110_112809.jpeg H4831sc..... mild compression with 147s.
    You'll need a drop tube at least 20" long. 44gr produced the pictured sd/es. We've gone to 2900 with the 147s without pressure, but found it wasn't worth the hassle when there was a little less than .1 mil difference in wind between 27-2800.


    Adam
     
  15. billshehane

    billshehane

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    OK ALREADY, I'm gonna build a 6.5 Creedmoor!

    Little Bitty one for my Grandsons. Have on hand one of Melvin's Ultra Light Arms, short actions and my barrel will be a 22" finished length #1 Forbes taper. Want to shoot the 120 Barnes TTSX and I want a 9" twist, unless I can be shown a better twist for this combo. I use this TTSX in my 7-08 and it is KILLER on every deer I have shot, most at 300yds. or under. Most under. I have been told by 2 different top barrel makers that a 9" twist will work fine, even with the 140's If I chose to shoot. What powder, brass, primer and loads have you shot with this combo or anything close. Save me some time-- TOO OLD to do a bunch of testing.

    Thanks for your time.

    Bill Shehane
     
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  16. MSS

    MSS

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    I did this awhile ago and ramshot hunter amd reloder 16 were the ones with near full or full capacity with the lowest pressure.
     
  17. Evlshnngns

    Evlshnngns

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    I loaded full stick h4831, call me Captain Krunch! I'll report when It hits paper.
     
  18. FJIM

    FJIM

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    Naturally case volume,neck tension,bullet bearing surface,barrel bore tightness can play a big part in chamber pressure along with chamber dimension and throat lead and wear. So all loads you see and hear about you should always back off and work up slowly. In my factory savage 24" barrel 6.5 creed i ran Lapua Palma brass CCI450's and 44.0 of RL17 behind a Berger 140 HVLD at 2.890 for a MV 2,950 FPS and with 6 firings on the brass the primers pockets were as tight as new and the brass showed no sign of tiring. It's been awhile since i have loaded any but i used a 6" drop tube to get the powder in so i did not crunch any when seating the bullet. So yea it was a dense 100% fill. I am going to be working with a 22" hunting rifle maybe next month and can't wait to try some RL16 behind a 143 ELD X..to see what i can make it do.. In My opinion RL17 likes heavy neck tension like .003 or more or a new annealed neck at .003 and you will see 40 FPS more MV and tighter groups. Just what i have noticed in a few different rifles.Allthough there are a lot of great cartridges out there and many far better for intended uses i am a fan of the 6.5 creed.
     
  19. B Mize

    B Mize Silver $$ Contributor

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    Bill my first CM had an 8.5 twist bartlien and it would not stabilize the 140 Bergers, but loved the 139 scenars, take it for what is worth.
    As you know, you can’t over stabilize a bullet. I go 8tw just to be sure.
     
  20. BleedsBlue

    BleedsBlue

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