Questions about accurizing Savage actions

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by ba_50, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. ba_50

    ba_50

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    If one listened to all the glowing reports about Savage rifles they are perfect out of the box. Some say nobody wants to work on them because the quality isn't there in the first place, or they don't need any truing because of the floating bolt head.

    If they do need trued and such than I can't see any advantage vs a Remington.

    What are the facts?
     
  2. artbosco

    artbosco

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    "Some" does not make for a universal consensus.

    Can you provide a list of names so we know who "Some" are, and the specific gunsmiths "Some" dealt with? And, the reasons why the smiths didn't want to work on them?

    When you can do that, then you'll know the facts ... at least those related to the experience of Some.

    There is nothing about a Remington that renders it immune to truing and timing, if needed.
     
  3. ba_50

    ba_50

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    To quote one of your posts "A Savage is still a Savage. I own a Savage that's been trued and timed, with a custom stock, custom trigger, customer barrel, etc., and I also own two custom built rifles" Now that sounds to me like you aren''t impressed with Savage.

    The only Savage Stiller would recommend is the F-class 6BR because of the price.

    The gunsmiths (J.Dillinger) on firearms talk say that nobody sends them Savage actions for reworking.

    Except for the Target action, most Savage actions have a lot of metal cutouts which decreases its strength. I can't verify the sources qualifications.

    There seems to be about 6 smiths who do work on them, so maybe I will contact one of them and ask my question.





     
  4. DennisH

    DennisH Life Time NRA member Site $$ Sponsor

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    ??? . . . I have both actions, all True & Timed, all with custom triggers, barrels, and Stocks!

    It is a hard decesion come match day as to what gun is going to the match!!!

    The only advantage . . . . Savages, all I have to do is order anything I need for it and I can completely set it up in my home workshop!

    I have Fred with SSS T&T the actions and install his Evolution trigger. After this, the action/trigger is there for life! A good T&T'd 700 with a Jewell trigger, well again, comparing the two . . . hard decesion!
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Site $$ Contributor

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    I have several Savage rifles 1/2 MOA from all, 1/4 MOA from most with my ammo.

    Recently I had two Timed & Trued, not for better accuracy but smoother operation.
     
  6. Catfish

    Catfish

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    I have had rifle action from abt every major manufacture including most military actions. They all work. Right now I`m buying mostly Savages. The only real reason is that I can work on them myself and switch barrels from 1 action to another in a few minutes, head spacing them is so easy.
     
  7. mattri

    mattri Site $$ Contributor

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    I own a few Savages, and have owned a few more in the past. They all shot very well, and I thought the fit and finish was absolutely on par with any Winchester, Remington etc.

    As far as an advantage over a Remington, there are a few, but they are a bit subjective.

    The floating bolt head helps with contact for obvious reasons, and if an action is a touch out of true will negate most, if not any negative effect on accuracy. The ability to change barrels and thus calibers is also an advantage.

    For a long time the 700 was the 350 small block Chevy of the shooting world. It worked well enough, was easy to mod and everyone made parts for it and could work on it.

    FWIW my shooting buddy is using a .308 with a blueprinted 700 action in a mcmillan stock, an aftermarket trigger and barrel (don't know who's, 1" bull @ 26") and a very nice NF scope. I shoot a stock Savage action in a factory HS stock with a Weaver scope and a Criterion 20 Practical barrel. Out to 400 yards my gun is hands down more accurate than his. With either shooter in different conditions his rifle will group .5-1 MOA 9 times out of 10, and mine will group .25-.5 moa.


    100 yards:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    200 yards:

    [​IMG]

    400 yards:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rustystud

    Rustystud Site $$ Sponsor

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    Savage Truing and Timing:

    1. The sloppy bolt should be replaced. Best option PT&G .701 bolt body and hand lapped in.
    a. The cocking ramp needs a modification at the shelf and helical ramp juncture.
    b. The back of the bolt body needs to be moved forward to correct the primary extraction and bolt handle action contact problems.
    2. The bolt head should have the back of the lugs trued to insure bilateral engagement, not just lapped. Be the bolthead face should be trued to ensure eaven surface. If there is a out of center or oversized firing pin hole, the firing pin should be bushed. I chamfer and polish the leading edges of the bolt lugs. If it is needed I clean up, deburr, and polish the cocking piece, cocking piece sleeve, and firing pin under the firing pin spring. Adjust firing pin protrution if needed.
    3. I drill and tap the rear main screw .250 x 28 tpi and insert a .750 x .250 X 28tpi cone point set screw. I make a steel shouldered cap to fit the rear of the cocking piece sleeve with a small centered indent for the set screw to engage.
    4. Lug abuttments in the action need to be trueed,
    5. The action threads need to be trued (aligned with the bolt race).
    6. The action front should be faced giving clean surface to mate with precision ground recoil lug.
    7. Precision ground recoil lug used.
    8. The barrel nut if used should be trued recessing the shoulder so the grooves are offset from the recoil lug.
    The firing pin spring should be decocked just a little as the new set screw can be used to adjust the tension externally with an allen wrench now.
    9. The mating surfaces of the sear and trigger hanger should be chamfered and polished smooth.
    10. The contact surfaces on the sides of the trigger should also be chamdfered and polished.
    11. Use and extended Bolt handle.

    A clean and well

    The end result will be a tighter, smoother, square, action free from interferance contact.
    I find using the barrel nut does not effect the accuracy, it allows for the barrel to be switched from action to action. Is there a difference in a timed and trued action. Absolutely no comparison and the bolt lift is reduced by 50-60 percent.
    Nat Lambeth
     
  9. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

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    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a basic but key difference between the Savage actions on offer and those from other major manufacturers. While Remington, Winchester etc products are built for magazine operation with relatively thin side-rails connecting the front and rear ends of the receiver and big holes top and bottom, the single-shot three-screw Savage PTA models are widely available in a fair size range of rifles and also sold in action-only form. The single-shot PTA is a substantial chunk of steel with one relatively small port only machined in. Yes, I know Remy etc made / make single-shot actions too, but they are rarer and more expensive. Here in the UK they are very rare indeed.

    The PTA also comes with the target version of the AccuTrigger, a device that seems to be loved and hated in about equal measure. While I don't consider it as good as its Jewell or Barnard Model P equivalents, I've found it to be perfectly serviceable and reliable when set at 12 - 16 ounces for F Class and F/TR.

    Having shot with and competed against Darrell Buell and Monte Milanuk last summer over distances from 800 to 1,233 yards, I know that they and their factory F/TR rifles take some beating - and that's with factory barrels on their rifles, not a cut-rifled Bartlein, Krieger or similar! Likewise, Savage F/TR rifle users' successes in the last F Class World Championships at Bisley in 2010. Results speak for themselves, and count for far more than any theoretical plus or minus. Sure, an RPA Quadlite, BAT, Stolle or whatever custom built action is going to be 'better', but it'll also cost a lot more especially when you add a trigger assembly on.
     
  10. tome

    tome

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    the proof of the pudding is in the eating..thanks Laurie
     
  11. ba_50

    ba_50

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    Rustystud,

    That sounds like quite a bit of work. How much does it improve accuracy and what does a T&T cost? If all that needs to be done, than the Savage doesn't seem to have an advantage over truing a Remington.

    SSS thinks that the Savage is the most accurate factory rifle out of the box. As rough as they say the barrels are, I wonder why.
     
  12. Rustystud

    Rustystud Site $$ Sponsor

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    It makes a substantial difference. Especially adding a high quality aftermarket barrel with a coaxially straight and concentric chamber along with a good crown. A properly bedded action and free floated barrel. The only thing missing is a really good trigger. There are a couple of us colaborating on the trigger problem now.

    Nat Lambeth
     
  13. sniper15545

    sniper15545

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    I'm a retired sniper who if it wasn't remington or sako trg I didn't give it a second look. Until my father got me into the savages, It was then I learned that For a lot less money and work the Savage performed as well or better than most. I know own 7 savage rifles including four bench guns and love them all!!!
     
  14. mattri

    mattri Site $$ Contributor

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    This may be a really stupid question:

    The PTA comes with the Target Accutrigger that adjusts down to about 4oz. Is that not an acceptable value?
     
  15. Hoier

    Hoier

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    It is a good deal if you like Accutriggers but I do not.
     
  16. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Site $$ Contributor

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    All 4 of my Savage rifles will shoot a 5 shot group that I can cover with a dime on a regular basis.
    I just sent one of my actions in to get the T&T treatment so I'll know first hand what if any difference there will be. Real interested to see how it works. ;) It'll still be a Savage. 8)
     
  17. ba_50

    ba_50

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    My Savage possibilities include the LH Predator 10 Max fire 1 in 243 (6br if it was a choice), F-class 6br (already pillar bedded), or buy a target action, krieger barrel, and savage laminated stock. That's about a $1000.

    I would prefer the $700 range in a LH action if I can get 1/4-1/2" groups at 100 yards using reloads. I don't like the sloppy bolt though.

    The f-class stock doesn't ride the bags to well I guess.

    Does the target action need all that work or is it ready to go? Does it use a barrel nut?

    I need something for LR coyotes sometimes using a bench. I'm not going to mention the distance since somebody will disagree. Also occasional target shooting at 1000 yards.
     
  18. Hoier

    Hoier

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    For what you want to do I would look at the LRPV in a 6br with a 8twist. It comes with a target action and the one I got was in 22-250 but it shot pretty good then I screwed on a Benchmark in 6br and wow what a difference. I don't think the action needs any work but I just got mine back from SSS for their T&T job and evolution trigger.
     
  19. mattri

    mattri Site $$ Contributor

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    Sorry to not be clear, by value I meant the weight rating of the trigger, not the cost.
     
  20. tome

    tome

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    i can speak of the LRPV triggers..i have 2 ..a 22-250 and a 6br...using a Lyman trigger gage..real world settings are around 8oz..,at that weight tripping the sear is not a problem..one thing i have noticed is that the triggers will lighten over use and will have to be reset..all in all i like the trigger..it must be pulled straight back or you will have problems with the sear locking up..it really teaches good trigger control
     

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