Questionable primers

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by mgunderson, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    How would you expect a less than desirable lot of primers to show up?

    Would you expect it to show up in group size and velocity statistics?

    I don't have the answer. Just looking for people's experience.
     
  2. clowdis

    clowdis

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    You might find a variation in SD and ES over the chronograph. If you're not benchrest shooting you might not find anything in your groups or scores, unless you're having a problem like primers not firing. I don't see much variation in .308 regardless of what primers I use, so I assume they are all good lots, except for one lot of CCI450's which give me a bunch of misfires. So, if you think you may have a bad lot the best way to catch it is over the chrono.
     
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  3. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Gold $$ Contributor

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    Any chance that the brass wasn’t totally dry before you primed the cases?
    Ask me how I know,
    Ben
     
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  4. corning

    corning

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    Hi Marty.

    What makes you feel they are "less than desirable"?

    I had a bad batch years ago. It didn't manifest itself as ignition problems, but burned a ring in my bolt face. I would think that a bad batch will have ignition problems. I've only used Federal and Winchester primers. Years ago, I had heard of problems with the Russian primers, but since I never used them, I don't remember how it manifested itself.

    Good luck.

    John
     
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  5. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Fighting a gremlin with my load and it got me thinking. I've not seated the primer deep enough and had the random fail to fire. Mostly user induced errors. Can't say that I've had bad primers or ignition issues.

    This is a small lot of primers (a few thousand). Speed is normal and I haven't measured anything unusual in the ES or SD, but I don't always shoot shoot with a chronograph. Speed data looks OK on the electronic targets (when I shoot them).

    Tuned and retuned the load from the bench like I have done for years.... but something is off. Switched barreled actions, scopes, stocks, Bipods (yes, I am that far down the rabbit hole).

    Going to try a different primer lot and bullet lot and then adjust the nut behind the rifle!!!!

    Ben - It is not wet brass, but thanks for the thought.
     
  6. ebb

    ebb

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    Priming compound hasn't been affected by water in years.
     
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  7. D-4297

    D-4297 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Easiest , simple answer is that your targets would be very inconsistent with groups being scattered . As someone else said , "Ask me how I know" ? I changed brand of primers , and the issue went away .
     
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  8. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Were your sd and es ok? Or did it just show up on the target?
     
  9. cw308

    cw308

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    I don't have a chronograph but if your getting different changes in SD and ES and are grouping tight , or is it impossible to get tight groups when your numbers are spread out . Never got into speed , alot of my shooting friends are , I'm try to size , charge and seat as exact as possible . I guess the only way to see how exact each round is is to test with the Chrono . I only shoot benchrest 200 yards and for me I'm happy with half inch . I've been loading the same load for 3 seasons now , buy powder in 8 lbs. bullets in lots of 500 . Has been pretty consistent
     
  10. D-4297

    D-4297 Silver $$ Contributor

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    To @mgunderson ; I realize a lot of people follow the "Holy Grail" of SD / ES , but I'm not one of them . To me ; it's nothing more than a referential indicator . Being in one of the "Nodes" is more important than SD / ES numbers . Strange , that when you're in the Node , the SD numbers seem to get better also . I've watched shooters bang out world records with absolutely horrendous SD / ES numbers . Let the target tell you what's going on . Data is just that ....data .
     
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  11. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks. Not really hung up on the sd and es. Just not able to tune either rifle like they were. Been higher and lower, seated in and out. The nut behind the rifle isn't flawless either. The group isn't horrible it just isn't normal.
     
  12. DaveTooley

    DaveTooley Silver $$ Contributor

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    Question
    Round count and cleaning routine?
    I've had self inflicted problems when I let carbon fouling get ahead of me.
     
  13. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    1000 ish each barrel. Had the same thought and used a little bore paste in the throats and scrubbed them really well
     
  14. DaveTooley

    DaveTooley Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ummm
    I've chased my tail around more than once thinking my rifle went out of tune just to end up back where I started.
     
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  15. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yep, I hear you. Not saying that I am not chasing my tail.
     
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  16. waltkrafft

    waltkrafft

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    Take your bolt apart, clean it and the parts, relube, and re-assemble. Gummy lube and internal crud could be causing light primer strikes.
     
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  17. 10at6

    10at6 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I had similar. Changed my firing pin spring and it helped. Good luck
     
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  18. fyrewall

    fyrewall

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    Some info on primers - I read this stuff before making any judgements on primers.

    https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1102/1102.1644.pdf

    Of interest is the CCI 450. "Slope well correlated with mass except with CCI 450 primer" Bad lot? R value of .03.

    Inadequate firing pin tension, crud, and cold weather congealing innards of bolt are also things to look at and I have experienced all of these.

    Inadequate firing pin protrusion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  19. mgunderson

    mgunderson sling shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Conclusion - I have likely been fighting a combustion issue or similar gremlin. Switched lot of primers and noted an improvement. Switched bullet brands with similar weight including the primers and it was like flipping a switch.

    • First time for me switch bullet brands to find a better load.
    • First time switching primer lots for a better load.
    I do not have enough data to comment on the speed data yet, but maybe this weekend.
     
  20. 243winxb

    243winxb

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    .
    Had soot up 3/4 of the case body in 243 Win.when trying a 85 gr Speer #1213 in place of my standard load , Sierra 85 gr #1530 using 42 grs IMR 4350 powder, CCI BR2. Rem brass.

    The Speer bullet requires more powder to burn correctly https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/rifle/recipe/?setId=a4250c6d-9d2d-4b69-a909-fbb3ad3bceb4

    Speer may use a thinner jacket and pure lead core?
    Sierra may use a thicker jacket and 4% antimony lead thats harder?
    This would make a difference.
     

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