Question for SR BR shooters... You can only have one rifle...

Discussion in 'Gear Talk: What to Buy? and Gear Evaluations' started by bichettereds, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. bichettereds

    bichettereds Silver $$ Contributor

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    Hypothetical question...

    You can only have one short range benchrest rifle and it’ll be 10.5lbs and in 6ppc.

    What action and in what configuration do you start your build with and tell me why?
     
  2. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Bat B action, Scoville stock. I dont shoot short range but I do follow it and build them. Bat is by far the most popular and Scovile stocks are hard to beat, plus my best friend from grade school builds em ;)
     
  3. bichettereds

    bichettereds Silver $$ Contributor

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    I expected you to say Borden.

    So which Bat action and in what configuration?
     
  4. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    I specialize in long range. So for me to think I know whats leading edge in short range is foolish. Find out what smith is building the most competitive rifles these days and thats who you ask. The Neuvo action just set some seriously impressive rail gun agg records. Id seriously look at it.
     
  5. R.Morehouse

    R.Morehouse Gold $$ Contributor

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    If i were to build a new one i would go with a drop port or a 2 port for sure. I have 2 older rb,lp no eject set ups that run beautifully. One is a Bat S and the other is a Borden TPE. I don't mind pickin' brass but it would be nice to play with a newer action in the 6ppc. I can't imagine them running smoother than my older ones. But definitely smoother than my Flintstone fingers pickin' the brass....o_O

    Regards
    Rick
     
  6. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market

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    There are some seriously good stocks and actions available out there these days.

    Bat is probably the flavor of the day at this time, and they build an excellent action. The Scoville and Scarborough stocks are both very good and are popular at this time, in short range.

    That said, Pandas probably hold more records and have won more fake wood than any of them...maybe even combined. As for stocks, there are records still standing shot with stocks that you can't even buy new today. So, there is really no way to guarantee a good rifle by buying certain components and using a certain gunsmith. Rest assured, there are several good stocks and actions though.

    During my time in this business and shooting, I've seen many, many great rifles built on many stocks and actions. After checking and using most all of them, I consider the Borden actions to be at the top of the list of several very fine actions.

    The common theme today among the best of the best seems to be in weight reduction. Since no single component is the end all be all answer, it is in fact the whole system that separates the winners and the also ran's. That whole system is better when components are lighter, allowing for more important things, like balance and gun handling factors. Also, this is important if you plan to use a tuner, which I truly believe will and should be a standard piece of equipment on any competitive BR rifle in the very near future....like right NOW!

    Bottom line(s), it's the whole package that makes a gun a winner. You can't buy wins but you can "cheap" your way out of a competitive build.

    Lighter stocks allow more action choices and both lighter stocks and actions, allow still more room for things that really matter, all else equal.

    It still comes down to barrels, bullets and wind flags more than anything else, but IMHO, a state of the art build, today, is made with light components for adjustability in regard to weight placement. Stocks can be TOO stiff, IMO!

    There is no single right answer to the op's question, but there are many wrong ones. We are blessed to have many "right" answers to choose from.

    Buying a BAT, Borden, Kelbly..or one of a few others, along with a premium barrel, a quality tuner and a light but high quality stock, and trigger won't guarantee a winner but does assure you won't be failing to put your best effort into building with good components. These things along with using a smith that understands "the whole package" and how that applies to short range BR.. and your liklihood of having a very good rifle is exponentially better than just thinking you can buy a winner by using any certain stock and/or action.--Mike Ezell
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  7. LHSmith

    LHSmith

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    I shoot score SR BR since 2003. For me it was a matter of progression. I started with trued Remington action in 6 PPC, I used Bat multi-ports for several seasons. I discovered I prefered to pick conditions and having used Rem. 700 hunting rifles for over 40 years, the R-R is just more user friendly for me.
    Two proven R-R Leonard stocked Panda's became available from two mentors, one a LV, one a HV and I have used them for the past 5 seasons -along with a Rem. 700 in Hunter Class configuration as well as a Rem. 700 HV in .222.
    Standardizing on the R-R actions has helped me since I enjoy campaigning 2-gun when possible.
    I still get to shoot my buddies Bats during practice sessions, and I'd have to say I favor the Panda's.
    FWIW the R-R does not seem to handicap Tony Boyer;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  8. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    That would be me putting my long range experience onto short range. I know enough to know that "you dont know what you dont know". Until I win some big matches or my customers set some records in short range I wont have any strong opinions. One thing I will tell you about actions is to get with a gunsmith, not an assembler. If you want to go to the top, every component needs to be gone over and corrected if needed.
     
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  9. bichettereds

    bichettereds Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks guys. I didn’t mean for this to be another “which action is best” thread.

    I realize there are many very very good actions that will all do the job and it’s mostly just a matter of preference.

    I’m just curious what those who have had many different actions and lots of experience in short range BR competition prefer, and why.
     
  10. josh shrum

    josh shrum Gold $$ Contributor

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    If you look at equipment lists from SR Group shoots (where the 6PPC is the dominant cartridge) you will see an overwhelming number of BAT actions listed.
    Kelbyl actions would likely be the second most popular, with Borden and Farley actions nipping their heels.

    Scarborough, Scoville, Kelbly, Hunter, Leonard, and Borden stocks show up on the equipment lists of the top 10 shooters with regularity.

    But to answer the OP's question, I have all of my BR rifles built on Kelbly actions, specifically the Panda for SR. The weight saving of Aluminum vs Stainless allows me more flexibility in scope choice when limited to 10.5 lbs as well as having a massive amount of bedding surface.

    For stocks for SR, I really like the BRFB from Kelblys as well.

    Personal opinion, many will likely disagree.

    Also, I prefer Coke over Pepsi.
     
  11. rjtfroggy

    rjtfroggy

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    Simply put for short range BR (100 - 300) you could get away with one gun and many people do. Although most guys have more than one, they use a favorite and bring a spare to matches just in case.
    As for action brand your choice and caliber for SR score I believe the choice is now 30BR. Look at IBS web site and then results there is usually a equipment list.
     
  12. bichettereds

    bichettereds Silver $$ Contributor

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    I had group shooting in mind. I see all the equipment lists and know what’s popular. What I’m asking is, if you guys could only have one rifle for SR BR and it has to stay under 10.5lbs, what action would YOU use (brand, model, bolt/load/eject configuration) and why?

    I’m not asking you to tell me what I should use or what’s the best. Just what YOU prefer. Just curious...
     
  13. JEFFPPC

    JEFFPPC

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    Kelbly Panda action, McMillan Edge stock, Jewell trigger, Leupold 45x scope, Shilen or Bartline barrel. My builder would be Bob Green from York, Pa. I have been shooting this combination for 20 yrs and done very well with it and never had any problems. I have never went to or left a match that I thought I was not as accurate as any gun on the line. I shoot it from 100 to 500 yds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  14. jbhotrod

    jbhotrod

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    What/whose barrel(s) would you go with Mr Alex? Who's barrels have been looking the best recently in your personal experience?
    Also, any chance you can tell us more on the experimental barrel you been working with?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  15. Tim Singleton

    Tim Singleton Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have several 10.5 guns now and have owned several others over the past few years. Bat DS 3L Panda and Borden. Terry Leonard, Scoville, Scarborough and Kelbly stocks

    My favorite of all is a RBLPRE panda in a scoville stock
    It just plain out shoots everything I've ever owned. The scoville stock is an older one it tracks like nothing else I've had the panda action in it was gone thru by Ralph Stewart. I have a second panda in a Scarbourgh that shoots good but not as good as the other one
    Why do I like it better. It just plain out shoots the others.
    What a lot of people don't talk about is the fact if you want to be competitive in SR group you may have to go thru a few guns until you find the one
     
  16. Tim Singleton

    Tim Singleton Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'm trying to say don't get to hung up on whether it's a Bat Panda or Borden. They all have the potential to shoot awesome.
    Do they all? Nope
     
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  17. accuracyman

    accuracyman Silver $$ Contributor

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    BAT DS RBLPRE sitting in a Scarborough or Scoville stock. Nice light stock with a slick BAT action with large loading port and ejects for speed. Very popular combo these days. Action can vary obviously since we are blessed with a variety of very high quality actions. As others have mentioned Panda, Borden, Defiance, etc...
     
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  18. Pablo

    Pablo Silver $$ Contributor

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    For a right handed shooter a BAT DS in RBLPRE is considered the standard action by many, a Scarborough, Scoville or a Leonard stock, Jewell Trigger, Flavio, or Bix'n Andy, NF 42X are popular and either a Bartlein, Kreiger, Lederer, Hart, or pick one barrel. I like both Lederer and Bartlein, never had a bad one from either company. Many LV rifles wear tuners, Buckys seem to be the most common with Ezell becoming more popular.
     
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  19. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Gold $$ Contributor

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    personally i prefer panda/leonard but the guy who puts it all together is the most important component. Lots of great SR benchrest gunsmiths out there. pick one and listen to his advice. it is a substantial investment in both time and money that can last a lifetime. Get it right.
     
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