Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by potatoe, Aug 26, 2011.
Do you have to cut the bag under the leather straps on both the body and ears to fill these bags?
Nope, those leather "straps" are actually sewn ports for filling. work an awl or fine screwdriver in between the lines of sewing. It takes a fine tube to fit, and if you look at any major reloading catalog you will find a purpose built funnel for filling these. when you are done filling, that flap folds under.
Thanks dave. I actually just figured it out, my stupidity was looking for a hole where the flap GOES not in the actual flap. Thanks!
What would have been stupid was to cut a hole in the bag or to order another bag trying to find a fill hole, a smart man would do what you did and ask the question.
Next time just order the bag filled direct from Protektor. I used to fill my bags with the filling tube, jamming and poking to get into all the corners, always wondering if i had to much or not enough sand, not to mention the work involved in filling them.
Now I order direct from Protektor filled with heavy sand. Perfect right out of the box. Getting lazy in my old age! LOL!
Best bag out there in my opinion is the Protektor DR bag filled with heavy sand.
Yep, they are great bags! The guys at Protektor are also great to deal with and are very prompt at getting your order to you. Even custom bags are delivered quickly and at a very reasonable price. Take my advice and let them fill do the filling. You'll wonder why you didn't when your new bag arrives and you can use it right away.
And be sure to get enough sand in that rear bag. I just learned not having enough sand in the ears can cause vertical because the bottom of the stock will bounce off the top of the bag between the ears. A guy at the range I compete with pointed it out to me when I was complaining about vertical. I went home and filled the ears so the stock could not touch the top of the bag and the vertical disappeared!
And be sure to get enough sand in that rear bag. I just learned not having enough sand in the ears can cause vertical because the bottom of the stock will bounce off the top of the bag between the ears. A guy at the range I compete with pointed it out to me when I was complaining about vertical. I went home and filled the ears so the stock could not touch the top of the bag and the vertical disappeared
What? Are you kidding me! The stock is not supposed to touch the bag but only the ears? Please don't tell me I have been screwing up all these years. What else do I need to know shootilng off bags and my Bald Eagle rest? Not being a bench rest shooter, I have a lot to learn.
Here's what Benchrest Hall-of-Fame member Tom (Speedy) Gonzalez has to say about sand bags:
SAND BAGS & HOW TO FILL THEM
Back in the old days, about the time Fred Flintstone was still alive, I worked for Pat McMillan for free, from time to time to learn all his secrets.
One day little Speedy was filling some new sand bags out behind Pat's shop, stuffing them with more sand than Taco Bell put beans in their Burritos. When Pat stepped out the back door and inquired as to what in the hell was I doing packing them there bags the way I was.
I looked up at him with eyes like a kid with his hands in a cookie jar. My reply must have sounded like Homer Simpson "Doooh". Finally I said "I don't know, Boss. I just thought you were supposed to fill these babies up and go shoot.
I got that "You dumb bastard look" from Pat and I knew it was lecture time.
Speedy! Speedy! Speedy! (Now, I knew I had best go get a coke and a sandwich. We were gonna be here a while). This was what he told me.
You can not have two bags filled so hard that you gun bounces on them in the process of firing round at your target, especially if you have a rig with a very flexible stock. The bags must be set up in a manner for them to absorb the initial shock of the firing pin moving forward and igniting the primer. Then maintain their shape and absorb the second shock wave as well the rearward thrust and torque of the rifle.
What happens to the rifle when this is not done? Well let me tell you. The rifles have a very bad tendency to jump and roll in the bags. This causes many of those wild, lost shots that one can't explain. You know! The one that should have been in there and is now sitting all by itself like the red headed kid nobody likes. (I'm not talking about you Bill Dorsey, I still love ya man!)
Charles Huckaba, Ken Terrell, Larry Baggett and some of us Texas shooters talk about this phenomena quite often. We have all agreed that -
1: You can not have two hard bags in your set up.
2: Heavy sand magnifies these phenomena.
3: If you are a bag squeezer, pack ears hard and leave bag pliable enough to squeeze for the movement required. You may pack front bag as hard as rules permit.
4: Free recoil shooters pack both bags firm, but not so hard as to allow stock jump. Especially if you have a stock with a very flexible forearm.
5: We use play ground sand also know as silica sand. I sift mine to get any large impurities out then mix it with 25% to 50% with Harts parakeet gravel to the desired hardness that I am looking for. The bird gravel keeps the sand from packing itself into that solid as a brick state.
Speaking of bricks another thing that happens when shooters employ that heavy zircon sand is the ears form a low spot under them from recoil and then tend to rock back and forth with the rifle causing many low shots to crop up. Edgewood makes an Edgewood/Speedy rear bag these are specially reinforced under the ears to eliminate this scenario.
One last note if you use the new Cordura bags keep them sprayed with a good silicon spray or "Rain-Ex". This keeps them from getting sticky.
Well, Boss try that and see if it helps.
P.S.: I do not like the double stitched leather bottoms. While this seems like a good idea, I see more shooters have problems because of them. They tend to slide around the bench and or slide with the rifle on recoil. The standard Protector with Cordura rabbit ears and an Otto ring bag with A Cordura front would be what I would suggest to the new shooter or one of the Edgewood / Speedy rear bags.
Now that you've found the secret opening to your sand bag, you need one of these to make things go a lot smoother: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=155007
Not to argue with Outdoorsman but I personally think this is about 10 times better then any funnel and you can pack the bag as tight as you want in a very short time with zero sand spillage, I love mine and wouldn't try filling another bag with anything else.
John makes some fine products. Either one will work.
We collaborated on a mod [slightly larger funnel, long drop tube, and interchangeable flared adapters] to his original powder funnel which turned out as I had envisioned: http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com/Powder_Funnel.php
John will work with you ... which is one of his hallmarks. Don't be afraid to make suggestions because he'll listen and adopt them. So few others are willing to do that.
I may have filled my rear bag to tight as I noticed a bit of vertical this last weekend”
I’m now at about 90% in the bottom. Might need to take out a bit more.
Always something good from Speedy!!
Rear bag doesn't effect as much as the front. When the front is hard the gun bounces. Softer up front helps to control vibrations. Matt
Got my front bag nice and soft
Like a lady’s hands?
I sure miss potatoe
That’s exactly right “
Most of the top shooters in the type of shooting disciple that I shoot let the rifle ride on the stitching and not on the ears. Somebody told me the same thing as what you said and I did that for the first season that I competed and I asked the top SR score shooter what he did and he told me to let it ride on the stitching and after that my game improved immensely.
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