NRA F-class Smallbore Rifle (F-sbr)

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by Jetjock1, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. kzin

    kzin

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    university rifle is getting f-class shooters but is not sanctioned
    fairfax advertised f-class for their regional but from the results didn't get any f entries

    that's only internet knowledge on my part

    the mail shoot mentioned in this thread is sanctioned, I believe
     
  2. kzin

    kzin

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    designating an optional 200 yd official target seems like a good idea that should be do-able. Maybe the c-2 international?

    I can't relate to needing a 200yd target for challenge, though.

    Cleaning that A33 1.045" 10 ring at 100 yards in the wind seems plenty challenging. Are the people who want 200 for challenge really thinking in terms of the metric targets?

    To me the biggest difference at 200 is it gets much harder to see the holes and to fit multiple targets on the backer. I would shoot 200 if available but I prefer to practice and shoot at 100.
     
  3. kzin

    kzin

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    fyi-
    NRA smallbore rules
    7.7 Long Range Conventional Prone -
    (200 Yards) - This event is no longer used for classification or National Records. If a sponsor desires to conduct this event, Target A-21 may be used or it may be
    fired on high power ranges using regulation high power targets, pit operation and scoring procedures.
     
  4. Erud

    Erud Gold $$ Contributor

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    Here's why:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Medic505

    Medic505 Dean Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks, a picture is worth a thousand words. Or, about 80 yards, however you want to look at it.
     
  6. Medic505

    Medic505 Dean Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for pointing this out.
     
  7. Mike_Carter

    Mike_Carter

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    Regarding the course of fire. Traditional smallbore prone matches are 160 shots for record per day. 40 shots at 50 yards. 40 shots at 50 meters. Dewar (20 @50 Yards and 20 @100) and finally 40 shots at 100 yards. Fired in that order. The day ends at 100 yards when the wind is up. The Critchfield course of fire is 640 shots for record. 320 shots with irons sights, and 320 shots with any sights. This is the course of fire practically every NRA Outdoor Smallbore Rifle Prone Champion fired at Camp Perry to win The Critchfield Trophy. In 2009 the NRA smallbore committee did away with the 40 shot shot match but still awarded a full sized replica plaque instead of a 3/4 size one. ASSA believes the course of fire for the prone National Championship should be 6400 shots. What does the F-Class SBR shooters think?
     
  8. kzin

    kzin

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    You lost me on the 40 shot change. Changed all the 40's to 20's???

    6400 shots is too many!

    I assume f-class shooting irons isn't even a serious possibility.
    Personally, I'd go with 320 rather than repeating the same 320 twice but 640 would not drive me away.

    Seems like you tried this CoF question before and I was the only one to reply. You might want to start a dedicated and specific thread.

    I'm most interested in how Open / TR will be handled. I strongly think it should be at least tracked well so we can see if the scores warrant separate awards.
     
  9. Medic505

    Medic505 Dean Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Is there one zero too many here?
     
  10. 1813benny

    1813benny

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    Yes! It should be 640 shots....
     
  11. 1813benny

    1813benny

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    The 6400 aggregate over four days is only eight (8) targets per day (20 record shots per target). For sling shooters, it is the ultimate challenge of endurance, reading conditions and consistent technique.

    What Mike was referring to was that the NRA eliminated the 50 yard match entirely, stating that it "did not have any significance" among a host of other reasons why, none of which were supported by the vast majority of the shooters.

    F-class with metallic sights would be another avenue for a challenging match, or possibly a sub-category if approved by the match sponsor. I don't see why it would not be a serious possibility. For reference, in smallbore conventional prone, there have only been two (2) perfect scores. The first was fired over 30 years ago and the last one was fired a little over 2 years ago at the Mid-Atlantic 6400 Prone Championship held in Palmyra, PA. The gentleman who shot that score fired metallic sights all the way through the match - over 4 days - when he could have used a scope during the last 2 days.

    For the ASSA 2018 Smallbore F-Class Championships, if there are enough competitors in each category, I believe that we would certainly consider presenting awards for Open and TR.

    Break time is over....I need to get back to the rules.....

    Keep forwarding your suggestions!
    thx
    Ken
    ASSA Secretary/Treasurer
     
  12. Medic505

    Medic505 Dean Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the reply. 6400 points. Please forgive me, I'm not that savy with the small bore world.
     
  13. kzin

    kzin

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    I think it's less true than it used to be but one of the reasons for being in f-class is still eyesight or physical issues.
    Making irons part of the standard championship CoF or making the CoF a test of endurance may be inappropriate.
     
  14. BobLor

    BobLor

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    I would like to see F smallbore Open class and F smallbore TR class kept separate. I believe there is enough difference between using a front rest and a bipod that they should be separate for awards. Let me put my nomex underwear on and say this, if you want to allow open class to really be a bit different allow F smallbore Open class the optional use the .17 and .22 mag. rimfire. I have to admit that I have never fired a .17 rimfire and my .22 mag. is not as accurate as my .22 LR rifles, so I do not know if anyone would even want to go that route. On metallic sights, in my 12 years of running High Power matches I have only seen one competitor use metallic sights in a F class match although the rules do allow it. That said, why not have a sub match for FO/Ftr irons, (but most of us went to F class because we could not see to use irons anymore).
    bob L.
     
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  15. 1813benny

    1813benny

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    In reviewing the passage, I do not see anywhere where I stated that metallic sights would be part of the course of fire for the championships. I was outlining that having the use of metallic sights as an optional sub-category could be incorporated into the F-Class rules for match sponsors to offer at their discretion. If I was not clear enough, I trust this will provide the true intent as to my response.

    In reference to any comment regarding endurance, it was directly related to sling shooters. The 6400 aggregate - FOR SLING SHOOTERS - has been the championship course of fire for over 50 years until changed for somewhat conflicting reasons, depending who you spoke to from the NRA.

    As previously stated, the final course of fire for the smallbore F-Class championships has not been set. If the vast majority of F-Class shooters want a specific course of fire, that is what can be incorporated into the championship program.

    ASSA is in full support of the development of F-Class smallbore in the United States, thus our commitment to engage the entire community to finalize the rule book and conduct a first class championship. It is this communication that is extremely refreshing and positive. Again, thanks to all who have contributed thus far and to those who will contribute in the near future.

    Best Regards,
    ken
     
  16. 1813benny

    1813benny

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    Bob,
    Thank you for thoughts. FYI, at this time the rules are being established such that Open and TR are separate. This would be the concept for the ASSA Championships, unless there are not enough competitors which would potentially require classes to be combined.

    Again, it is with this input where we can develop a solid program.
    Best Regards,
    ken
     
  17. SF-Guy

    SF-Guy Gold $$ Contributor

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    Hey brother,
    Yep the A-21 Target is awesome. maybe 25 years ago in Jacksonville we were playing with a Smallbore Palma match ( unapproved, non-sanctioned, probably shoot us if they knew- kind of match) using the A-21 for 200 yds and we shot at 150 and 100 yds. We used the A-33 at 150 because it was a metric target and the X ring required the round to be completely inside and not touching to be an "X" otherwise a 10. We were clicking iron sights just like on the big guns and we worried over the smallest breeze. It was fun. I shoot NRA sling in the mid and long range game and have just not warmed up to F-class enough to go that way. I'm a young-un at 66 and will wait until i am 'old' to go that way.
    Our club is starting them monthly now as of August 2018. We are filling the line now with the regular F-class and barely have enough folks to have a match in the XTC. I will shoot with them but will shoot my 1813 with a sling. Maybe with a scope. the NRA rules are 'provisional' so they will be writing them as time goes along. There is confusion about having to load and fire, slow fire, with one round at a time vs. being able to load a magazine. The obvious argument has been that if you can use a rifle with a magazine - you can load it up...and that's wrong. In highpower we have all repeaters for the across the course. ( Have to be due to the rapid fire stages) and the service rifles and match rifles all hold 5 & 5 rds or 2 & 8 rounds but in slowfire standing and prone we only load and shoot one at a time. As the rules say "This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of benchrest and should not be construed as such"
     

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