Nosler RDF Bullets

Discussion in 'ELR, Ballistics & Bullets Board' started by Delfuego, Nov 17, 2016.

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  1. Delfuego

    Delfuego

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    I just got my hands on a few of the new Nosler RDF (Reduced Drag Factor) 105 grain 6mm bullets. They advertise a BC of .571 (G1) & .280 (G7). I hope they perform well and that the price is reasonable. They are not officially out yet so I dont know what the retail price will be. The BC is very close to the Hybrid 105's and could be a good alternative. They seem to be very pointy, and the small sample I have has very consistent base to ogive measurements. I will weigh them for consistency and see how they shoot.

    Cheers,

    Delfuego

    Nosler 6mm.jpg
     
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  2. Willow

    Willow

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    That BC will prove to be higher. A couple of guys on Snipershide have trialled these bullets for Nosler and recently competed in a PRS comp shooting out to 1200yards. They were constantly flying high on the target based on a G7 BC of .280 and they reckon it's closer to .294. They claim the bullets weren't fussy about seating depth either, they were very happy with them. I'll certainly be keen to try them when they become available down under.
     
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  3. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    That is interesting to hear, the two that I know we have tested so far were at or below the advertised BC by as much as 7 or 10% +/- off the top of my head. I look forward to seeing the results.
     
  4. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    Doc, Real world result with some of the top shooters in the nation using Kestrel 5700s and AB with your proposed result doesn't add up. We should wait until a thorough test is conducted
     
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  5. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    When you get a chance to launch them at distance let us know what you had to use for a BC. Thanks!
     
  6. Berger.Fan222

    Berger.Fan222

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    To many confounding variables can be in play to accurately determine BC from drop. Accepted methods are:

    Velocities at known distances and

    Velocity and travel time across a known distance

    Nosler has a long track record of publishing BCs much higher than measured by other parties with accepted methods.
     
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  7. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    IF the published BC doesn't work what do you do then?
     
  8. Berger.Fan222

    Berger.Fan222

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    Several options. Many BCs are available from alternate sources that have been measured with reasonable accuracy.

    More recently, the LabRadar has become available so folks can measure their own.

    Ultimately, trajectories are verified by shooting.
     
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  9. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    Exactly, so verified by drop at distance. With an accurate, repeatable and reliable Chronograph and high quality ammo sub 10fps ES you can accurately measure the BC of a bullet once atmospherics are taken care of by firing the bullet at distance and backing in to the BC. The G7 equation in 3rd edition of AB for long range shooting lends itself to modification. While it is very helpful to have a starting point on the BC that is not the end of it. Once velocity is confirmed either mag speed or labradar then confirmed at 600 or less the only force slowing the bullet down is drag due to atmospherics and bullet shape (BC) Since every single barrel has slightly different land and groove depth, twist rate and groove shape the fired bullet will exit the bore with different drag profile then the barrel used in testing. The BC is as much a variable that requires solving as anything else.
     
  10. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to seeing more !.!.!
    Questions:
    - Sample size
    - Base to ogive (BtO) extreme spread of entire sample
    - Weight extreme spread of entire sample
    - Diameter at the junction

    Thanks
    Donovan
     
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  11. Berger.Fan222

    Berger.Fan222

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    How did you ensure that your elevation adjustments on your scope are as precise as needed for this procedure to work accurately? (This is not needed for getting your own dope right, but it is essential to determine a BC that can be depended on by others.)

    How did you account for a headwind, tailwind, updrafts, or downdrafts?

    How did you account for temperature differences between when the ammo was chronographed and when BC was determined?

    How did you account for differences in ambient pressure between when the ammo was chronographed and when BC was determined?

    How did you account for lot variations in powder, primer, bullet, or brass between when the ammo was chronographed and when BC was determined?

    All these issues come into play when trying to determine BC from trajectory as you describe.
     
  12. eric32

    eric32 Shooting when I can Gold $$ Contributor

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    On a everyday shooter level, without access to a laboratory of machines and radars. I can only calculate a BC for a given round that will work in my "rifle system".

    Going out and shooting will give drops that correlate with the SCOPE/BARREL setup. Using that information I can customize any application to give drops that have been derived from actual field testing, in its given "rifle system".

    Weather/Wind gives a measure of unreliable results during field shooting when strictly measuring BC of a bullet. However it will give you extremely useful drop data information of a projectile in the parameters of your "rifle system".

    At the end of the day each "rifle system" is different from the next. The scope might track differently through a certain portion of the elevation adjustment vs others. Barrel lands and grooves might in-part a certain degree of jacket deformation that another barrel might not. Along with "true Barrel Twist" might degrade stability of a projectile which in-turn degrades BC. This also works in the opposite direction.

    At the end of the day going out and shooting YOUR "Load" in your "rifle system" will give you your "BC for a bullet" that works for you.

    I hope this makes sense.

    I am looking forward to shooting the Nosler RDF 70 22cal bullets, and the 175gr. Using berger stability calculator, a 1/11 is needed for the 175.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
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  13. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

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    ^^^^ Good post.... in the end, relevance to our own rifle systems is all that matters !.!.!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
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  14. jcvibby

    jcvibby

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    You should test these 6mm RDF bullets before talking about the bc. Don't lead shooters astray with one sided info. Just my 2 cents as I have tested these 6mm RDF bullets through multiple rifles and have come up with a bc about 12 points higher than nosler is advertising.

    Jake Vibbert
     
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  15. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    Tall target test Every scope I have has been box tested
    Kestrel 5700 with AB capturing wind, using latitude/Longitude direction of fire
    Range topography mitigates up and down drafts
    Velocity and data with in 10 minutes of each other using Density Alt
    My extreme spread is between 5-9 FPS and from small batch lot to lot velocity variance is negligible.

    Light condition is also very important. I zero my rifle and check it in multiple light conditions at various times of the day. Additionally, I shoot the bullet on multiple days and conditions in order to mitigate affects.
     
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  16. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    1-11 will work great. I shot a bunch of them out to 1800 ish this summer. I have a 1-10 so you may have to come down a tiny bit but .277G7 worked for me with a DSF of 1.024
     
  17. eric32

    eric32 Shooting when I can Gold $$ Contributor

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    My next barrels for my 308win rifle will be a 10 twist, I am using my old repurposed 13tw barrel from my palma days. I am just now getting into SEPRCA series, btw i am a big fan of yours. If your the same scott satterlee from the PRS series.
     
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  18. Scott Satterlee

    Scott Satterlee

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    Yes Sir and Thank you so much! You guys have a bad ass club series down there. I wish I could make it down more often
     
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  19. Delfuego

    Delfuego

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    Thanks Jake.

    I am withholding judgement until I have had more time with them. They made some promising groups today at 100y. The seemed to like Varget a lot more than H4895 in my 6BR. I am not a BR shooter, so I'm sure some of you guys would roll your eyes at my groups, but for the matches I shoot they could be adequate.
     
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  20. KevinD

    KevinD

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    That sure is weird that you came up with numbers that are lower than what they published, especially considering at least a dozen independent testers gave Nosler results that were higher than they published.

    The 105gr RDF's that I tested came out a .290 G7, which is just over 5% better than the Berger Hybrid, with a street price of $0.26 each, which is $5 per box of 100 cheaper.

    I also tested out the 70gr .224 and the 175gr .308 bullets, both of which performed better than advertised BC. The 70gr does have trouble going through the transonic barrier, pretty much just like the 168SMK, but once you realize its a 70gr .224 bullet and you won't really be shooting it past 1100 yards, you accept that "fault".

    After extensive weighing, measuring and shooting these bullets I have a bunch of data for how well they're made and shoot.

    I used a sample of 100 bullets and weighed, measured and recorded every possible detail about the bullets when I received them.

    For the 70gr RDF, weight variation from bullet to bullet was 0.23%, with an extreme spread of 0.16gr over the entire sample.

    Base to ogive extreme spread was .002", and base to tip extreme spread was 0.005". These are very consistent bullets.
     
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