Nightforce SHV vs Zeiss V4

Discussion in 'Scopes, Optics, LRFs, Spotters, BoreScopes' started by Mark McMahon, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. Mark McMahon

    Mark McMahon Silver $$ Contributor

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    Hey Guys looking for some info, Im looking at both of these, Nightforce SHV, Zeiss V4, which one of these a have better glass and light transmission, is there any experience out there that could give some insight, thanks
     
  2. Intell

    Intell

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    I've never used the zeiss, but i have an SHV 5-20x56 and the glass seems as good as my NXS 8-32. One day shooting paper at 300yds in really bad mirage, it resolved 223 bullet holes that I could hardly make out through my S&B pm. I'm not saying it's as good as S&B, but for the money I think they are good. Mine tracks well also.
     
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  3. CoyoteTan

    CoyoteTan

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    Same here, have not used Zeiss, but love SHV, I have two SHV and absolutely love them
     
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  4. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    The zeiss elevation turrets have no numbers on them BUT if you send it back with a check for seventy five bucks, they'll put them on for you. I'll stick with another brand, thank you.
     
  5. Mark McMahon

    Mark McMahon Silver $$ Contributor

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    Are you referring to the Zeiss v4?
     
  6. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes. Go to their website and look at the V4 owner's manual. The windage turret is without numbers also. From my perspective except for shooting a consistent range where you don't need to use the turrets or are only ever going to shoot one load, are basically useless for hunting. A friend of mine bought one not knowing about the turrets and had to incur an extra cost and shipping to have a numbered turret installed. The end user can NOT install the numbered turrets. The scope must be returned. I have to shake my head that they would ever sell a scope without numbered turrets. Having said all this, I would need to have the Zeiss in my hand to verify what type of turrets on both elevation and windage.

    Edit: Some models have an exposed numbered turret. Some are without numbers. This goes for the Conquest line.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  7. Mark McMahon

    Mark McMahon Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the heads up
     
  8. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Forgot to add a somewhat goofy quirk of the Zeiss scopes. The elevation knob works backwards from 99% off all scopes. Need to move up? Go clockwise. It's not the standard bottle cap memory aid. I'm not sure about the windage knob but suspect it's bassackwards too. One thing's for sure, their scopes aren't user friendly or made for the American market.
     
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  9. Gary O'Neal

    Gary O'Neal Silver $$ Contributor

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    I'm a little confused by some of these posts. I had a V4 6-24. It was a great scope and the elevation turret was indeed numbered and had CCW elevation. In fact, everyone I've seen and handled were the same. I wonder if your friend somehow got a hold of a European version? I seem to remember reading that there were two versions. One for Norht America and one for Europe. But, I could be mistaken.
     
  10. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Correct on the 6-24 but check the manual. Some models have turrets without numbers. Agree the Zeiss are made for the European market but the same models are sold here in the U.S. Their marketing department doesn't get it. Aside from that, the myth is that all of these scopes are completely manufactured in one country. Some Zeiss are now manufactured in Asia.
     
  11. Gary O'Neal

    Gary O'Neal Silver $$ Contributor

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    The V4's are made in Asia as far as I know. The V6 and above are made in Europe with Schott glass, or so I've read from numerous Zeiss ads and reviews. You may be right, but I've not seen or heard of any of the European models being imported here. Possibly in a gray market situation?
     
  12. JaoeyP

    JaoeyP

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    Hi guys, Zeiss sales rep here. V4s are available with target elevation turrets that are numbered as well as capped/windage and elevation turrets.

    The exposed/target turrets are available in the 1-4x, 4-16x, and 6-24x models. The 3-12x models are only available with capped elevation turrets. All windage turrets for the V4s are capped. The 1-4x, 4-16x, and 6-24x are available with reticles with MOA subtensions. The thought was guys dial for elevation, but hold for wind. All V4 turrets are in MOA. 4-16x and 6-24x have about 100 MOA of elevation; same have 20 MOA per revolution. Zero stop is resettable to any position and is simple and easy to learn.

    Target turrets are all marked. Capped turrets are not.

    Many Zeiss scopes in the past did dial opposite of US scopes. V4s and V6s dial the traditional way- counter clockwise to increase elevation; clockwise to move impact left.

    Hogpatrol if your friend bought a model with capped elevation turrets but had wanted a target turret, he bought the wrong model. He could have done the same with any other brand.

    Yes, Zeiss scopes have been designed for the European market in the past. V4s and V6s were designed for the US market. They hired Kyle Brown a couple years ago for US product development and have made some excellent strides in their design and will continue to come out with more products for the American shooter.

    V6s are made in Germany. V4s are made in Japan.

    V4s have 90% light transmission. This is from one end to the other, not through one lens bought through all of the lenses. Zeiss' light transmission numbers are usually pretty conservative compared to their competition. The scopes are very bright and have very little chromatic aberration/color fringing.

    I've box tested and tall target tested a 4-16x with excellent results. I've shot the same scope to 600 yards with excellent results. I've shot the 6-24x on a 300 Win Mag and it has held zero with no issues.

    Attached is a screen shot of the manual. You can see both versions of available turrets.

    I'm happy to answer any questions or clear up anything else on the V4s.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  13. msinc

    msinc

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    I steered clear of NightFarce scopes for a long time....something just didn't seem right about the way everyone that owns one was bragging about them, yet the classifieds were full of them for sale, only to see the guys bragging this week put them in the classifieds two seconds later.
    I have several Zeiss scopes, but they are all German made. I finally broke down and bought an SHV, it's the 5-20. I was disappointed with it at first as far as low light performance was concerned. Then I played around with the adjustments and found that if everything is set to be optimized for the power it is set to then it was impressive for Asian glass. For absolute best optimum performance in low light there is one power setting and one focus and one parallax setting, I marked mine on each adjustment so when I was sitting in a tree and it was almost dark I could easily get it where it needed to be. Again, when set right for my eyes it is very impressive for the price....not a Leica or Zeiss, but I'll take one hunting anytime.
     
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  14. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    @Jaoep, thanks for the update on which scopes are equipped with numbered turrets, those that have caps and I still can't understand the thinking behind that design. From my perspective, Zeiss missed the boat when it comes to the U.S. market, i.e trying to sell a scope of any power, any style, any design, for ANY DISCIPLINE, without numbered turrets. You mention capped and target turrets. What about exposed HUNTING turrets. Nightforce screwed up when they came out with the SHV, primarily a hunting scope, with a capped elevation turret but eventually redesigned the SHV with an exposed elevation turret. My 2¢, if Zeiss wants to sell in the U.S. market, they'll have to get off the good glass pitch and completely redesign their turret lineup. There are too many scopes with just as good or better glass at a lower price to compete with what they offer now.
     
  15. JaoeyP

    JaoeyP

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    Nearly every optics manufacturer offers at least some hunting scopes with capped elevation knobs that are not numbered. I've had scopes like this from Leupold, Burris, Bushnell, Meopta to name a few. Not every hunter needs/wants numbered elevation knobs and forgoing that expense can help to hit a price point within the market.

    Do you mean exposed turrets that lock? I also think Zeiss should offer an option for this and myself and others within my agency have suggested as much.

    What would you like to see different than our current target turrets with zero stop available on the V4/V6? Other than being lockable? (Looking for your valuable input here and it is appreciated)


    BOLD statement here. Who has better glass at same or lower price points? When you say this I'm assuming you've taken scopes from our current lineup (V8, V6, V4) out to the range and compared them side by side with other scopes. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unless you've done this personally there's not much validity to this statement.

    Most people don't have the opportunity to do this. I've gotten to compare them side by side with a lot of the most popular brands during sales calls and can say optically, they perform very well. Still, looking through one scope and then another is not very definitive and I always wonder how much I may be biased when doing so.

    You are right, glass quality does not drive scope sales like it used to. Zeiss took a VERY long time to understand that. They fell WAY behind on features and almost only pursued the hunting market for years when most other manufacturers went after the "shooting" market. Zeiss does have far better options now than they did two years ago when my agency took the line. We are very hopeful that they will continue to catch up and at some point start to innovate. The new Victory RF binoculars is one innovation that should start shipping any day now. I've had a sample on order since December and can't wait to play with a pair. And yes, Hogpatrol, I'm plugging in my data for my 6.5 Creedmoor first!!!!!

    Thanks again for your input.
     
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  16. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Adjusted for inflation, my 5¢, To any extent, Zeiss has a loooong way to go to crack the U.S. market. Vortex, Kahles, Sightron, Nightforce, Athlon, Leupold, Trijicon, Burris and Delta all make competitive products. Turrets without numbers? May be for a niche discipline, but for this market, a definite non starter.
    Aside from that, the Zeiss U.S. website is a disaster. I look at it and get the feeling Zeiss is clueless to the U.S. market. I mean all technical data is in metric? Are you kidding? SMH.

    https://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics...victory-v8-riflescopes.html#models#position-3

    Bottom line? If they want to be competitive and sell in the largest scope market in the world, Zeiss needs to dump the obvious "we'll make it the way we want to and they'll just have to buy it like that because we have good glass" attitude.

    As far as comparison, I will share one with you in a PM.

    Good luck with the Creedmoor. It's a good cartridge. :D
     
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  17. JaoeyP

    JaoeyP

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    Not ALL of their data is metric. Specs for V6 and V4 FOV, eye relief, weight, and length in standard measurements (feet, yards, inches, and ounces). V6 and V4 were designed for the US market. V8 is a perfect example of product designed for Europe.

    They're trying to get better. I previously mentioned the hiring of Kyle Brown. Kyle was part of the team that helped add some of the features to NightForce scopes that helped increase their popularity.

    If you haven't spent any time with a V4 or V6 yet, they truely are much better products than Zeiss has had in the past. Zeiss has gotten better, but still has room for improvement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  18. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Don't criticize the farmer with your mouth full. Gold $$ Contributor

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    My comparison is with the Conquest 6x20 MC and an SHV 5x20. Haven't had my hands on the newer models yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018

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