New Wildcat, now what to Build?

Discussion in 'Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing' started by AR15-SUPER, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    I've got my Lifelong desire to have a 7mm Express on Steroids in the works. I have never built a Long Range Rifle before. I have some interest in a Mauser Action. I want most of my budget to go into a Barrel and Glass. Where to Start? What are some good realistic Budgets. Yea I want 35MM Scope but might not be able to afford one. 1500 Yards is the deal with 180's maybe more on Paper. Experienced help and advice welcome. This is not an Elite Build, that would be like an Amateur trying to build a Saturn Rocket.
     
  2. jfseaman

    jfseaman Silver $$ Contributor

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    Hopefully one of many "dream builds" in your life.

    Your 7mm Express sounds to be more than a 280AI. I would love to see the specs some day.

    A Mauser action will do it except I think you have to look out for late war metallurgy. As I understand it actions made when Germany was starting to loose where not strong metal. Someone else chime in on this.

    Good barrel will be $400 or maybe more.
    Good glass with 34mm (you said 35 above but I think 34 is what you mean) can be had for less than $1000 up to more than you want to spend. I would look in the $700 to $1500 range. Like https://www.opticsplanet.com/sig-sauer-sot46001.html

    In reality, I would recommend something other than a old Mauser action. A Model 1917 aka P17 Eddystone or an 03A3. Even better would be to use a modern 30-06, 270 or 280 doner rifle.

    Have fun.
     
  3. Sniper338

    Sniper338 Silver $$ Contributor

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    isnt a 7mm Express the exact same thing as a 280 rem. The ammo is interchangable/same thing.
     
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  4. okie

    okie Gold $$ Contributor

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    I think so, when they came out they called em that???
     
  5. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    Ha, that was a hook in the Mouth eh? It's more like a 7mm Gibbs than anything, only it's different of course. Not really a .280 as that's much smaller in case capacity.

    What Twist Rate do the 180's Require? Will a regular 280 Barrel Work? I would consider an XPR as a donor.
     
  6. okie

    okie Gold $$ Contributor

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    9 tw for berger hunting 180s, 8 tw for targets. google 7mm express
     
  7. Kurz

    Kurz

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    Do you have a name for such an awesome cartridge or is it top secret? What case is it built on and do you know the case capacity in grains of H2O? There are a ton of extra large 7mm cases available without having to resort to a wildcat, unless of course it's part of your joy, having a wildcat. Until we know some of the parameters of the cartridge, it's hard to assist with a budget due to the excessive number of cost variables.
     
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  8. Eddie Harren

    Eddie Harren Gold $$ Contributor

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    "I've got my Lifelong desire to have a 7mm Express on Steroids in the works"

    Check out the wonderful 280AI.
     
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  9. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    Ok, well I don't plan on "releasing" any info on my "Lucy" until I have a working model and do some testing. After all the hoopla of having half a dozen 7mm-06's I knew we needed at least one more. I'm sure it will fall in there with the JRS and the Gibbs. Does anyone know if the XPR is available in .280? The XPR appealed to me due to it's trigger design and it's Savage barrel nut design. Do most shooters just buy a new Rifle and steal the Action?
     
  10. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens

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    you dont have to get it in 280 all you need is the correct boltface. a 270 or 30-06 would be the same action as a 280 and i feel like you could find any action you want in those calibers
     
  11. butchlambert

    butchlambert Site $$ Sponsor

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    Mauser-NO! I do have a lot of Mausers and a couple 1917 Enfields. They are hunting rifles and not good for anything else. I guess a lot of us wanted a special, for myself only, cartridge in our very early years of shooting. Ain't nothing except a huge expense and a lot of trouble.
     
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  12. jfseaman

    jfseaman Silver $$ Contributor

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    OK. I think I understand now.

    You are trying to make a better mouse trap in hopes the world will beat a path to your door.

    What @butchlambert says about wanting your own cartridge is true, lots of work and especially expense. Doing a 7mm based on "JRS" or "Gibbs" that is like a 7mm Espress on steroids is a 280AI or a 280 Sherman https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/280-sherman-max-vs-280-a-i.73844/ which is a shortened neck 280AI originally based on 30-06. The other "Gibbs" is the parent case for the CheyTac and I don't think you are going there.
     
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  13. jfseaman

    jfseaman Silver $$ Contributor

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    Things you need to know/remember.

    Chamber reamer will be ~$200 more if you are going to use a 505 Gibbs based design
    Resize reamer will be ~$200 or custom dies will be that or up to $500 more if you are going to use a 505 Gibbs based design

    So your minimum spend for reamer and/or dies is $400
    Barrel $400
    Action $400
    Stock $400

    So now you are at $1600 for a pile of parts and tools. You can reduce this by using inexpensive parts but then your design will not be tested in a quality setup.

    Add another $500 in gunsmithing.

    $2100 for your baby.
     
  14. Kurz

    Kurz

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    It usually gets accomplished with two methods:

    - Buy the rifle with the action and bolt face you want. Tear it down for the action, trigger and bolt, then sell off everything left over. Order in the rest of the parts required for completion.

    - Buy a custom action or an action which is available as an action only then start your build by getting the rest of the parts necessary for completion. There are a ton of new custom designs for actions along with the standard customs which have been available for quite a while. You can also find Remington, Savage, older Sakos and a few others as actions only. The trend is usually to buy a custom action, getting better quality right of the bat and not have to deal with the reselling of the extra parts. But in your situation wanting the Winchester XPR as the donor action, you might just have to buy the complete rifle.

    Good Luck with your project.
     
  15. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens

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    What exactly is an xpr and is your gunsmith even gonna work on it?
     
  16. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    No, I don't expect or want folks to beat a Path to my door.

    Interesting Article of that Mystery Sherman. The JRS I mentioned seems to closely fit the description, I never found a Reamer Print but I did find the Shoulder Width on a load data sheet, .454" with what appears to be around a .285 Neck Length I'm guessing. That Pesky JRS was really hard to track down so I went with my own to save money.

    My Cat is based on common dies and Reamers, this is a Budget minded Cat. I have formed over 100 Cases for it so far.


    I'm hoping to save some mistakes on this build. I did say this is not an "Elite" build, so no Custom Aftermarket Actions will be in the Budget. I don't think there will be a need for a Gunsmith on this Build. Thanks for all the Replies.


    (Oh, and just so there is no more confusion lets go ahead and list the Various 7mm 30-06 Cartridges Shall we?: 7mm-06, .280, later renamed 7mm-Express, then three years later renamed .280 and the Improved .280 Ackley Improved after he decided to dump his 7mm-06AI, and the Cats I know of are 7mm GIBBS which is the same design of the 30 GIBBS on a blown out 30-06 with a short neck and the 7mm JRS, and now the Mysterious Sherman. I'm sure there are more and if you must know I call my LUCY the "7mm Sniper". I am really surprised the "7mm JRS" is not more popular as it really looks like something that would have been mass produced long before the .280 AI from 60 years ago. I'll attach a pic I found online of the JRS, author unknown. 7mm JRS FULL.jpg I did not intend for this to be a Wildcat thread or I would have posted it there. :). Oh and sorry to upset the Wildcat Haters, I'll try an only mention them in the appropriate Forum from now on.)
     
  17. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    I think I have narrowed it down to a Savage Designed type Barrel. So where are the best Barrels for say an XPR Build? I guess since it's a newer low cost entry for Winchester since Browning acquired it ...??? Maybe a Browning A-Bolt III in .280 would work if the barrel is suitable? That would make up the difference in the higher price of the Browning since the XPR is almost exactly the same Rifle? I honestly don't know the difference between the XPR trigger and the A Bolt III? Can someone chime in on those Triggers?
     
  18. fyrewall

    fyrewall

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    Mauser 98 type actions are dependable, tough, simple, and designed by a gun genius but for your 7mm wishes I would consider a Remington or Savage or one of the boutique actions ($$) that many members like. Having some starting familiarity with BAT actions ($$) I am considering one of those vs. tearing apart a perfectly good .30-06 Ruger M77 MKII for my next project - a 6mm AI.
     
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  19. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens

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    so are you trying to just run a reamer into an existing barrel then screw it back on? if so you could go the 280ack route and call it a 7mm sniper. thatll save you a ton of cash. no matter what you want to do its been done. i have a cabinet full of one time reamers. costs id say $1000 extra each time you want to invent a new name. how bout an improved version of the 284? use long bullets in the mag and outperform most anything else and its available without a surcharge. engrave 7mm sniper on the barrel and save $750
     
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  20. AR15-SUPER

    AR15-SUPER

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    ]
    I am New to the Long Range Shooting World. I admire the Mauser 98, and would love one in Brenneke. Can someone post a Source for Quality 98 Type Actions for my purpose? All I seem to find are folks pushing some type of Military Collectible items.
     

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