New Rifle not as accurate as I'd hoped...

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Neogakai, Jul 10, 2019.

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  1. Intheshop

    Intheshop Silver $$ Contributor

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    Trigger and bedding might cost a bit. What won't cost anything and considering the factory parts effected,don't hurt a thing is.... lots of dry fire practice and work out your cleaning regime.

    Last R700 I got('17 ADL 223) has the best chamber cut I've ever stuck a cast bullet in. It's never seen a jacketed bullet. Shoots lights out @2700fps with a cheapchit Lee 55 out of the 12T factory brrl. Timney 510,bedding,and a 3-12 3200 Bushnell..... good luck with your project.
     
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  2. Daddymac

    Daddymac Gold $$ Contributor

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    After reading the title of this thread,
    New Rifle not as accurate as I'd hoped...
    my first thought was, they never are.

    Reading between the lines in your post, it "seems" you bought a rifle with scope mounted at the store, some ammo then headed to the range, am I correct in this thought? A good bore cleaning before the first shot is the order of the day, and I personally like to follow a break in procedure before working on sight in or grouping, but that's just me. Very few stores, especially big box stores, that I have seen, take the time to properly mount optics, a loose or poorly mounted scope, or weak mounting system, can throw shots all over the paper. When I help someone with a problem child, I thoroughly clean the bore and then remove, inspect, and remount bases, rings and scope as a starting point.

    Good luck, hope this helps.
     
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  3. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

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    Well, with my eyes and a 10 power scope, I can see the black Bullseye on a white target but the crosshairs look like they cover a half inch of paper and I can’t see bullet holes. I can’t tell if I’m even hitting paper. With a fifty power scope I can see everything clearly and count the legs on the fly that landed on the target. I can see exactly where my shots are going. Aim small, hit small. Guess it’s an old guy problem.
     
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  4. natdscott

    natdscott P100, HM, DR, experienced beginner. Gold $$ Contributor

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    You don't need to see holes. Segment the bull in quadrants, focus on the crosshair instead of where the shots are landing, and the shots will go where they need to. That, or offset and aim at the corner of the paper, corner of the square aiming black, etc.

    The caveat in my statements being that if you are trying to produce and repeat legitimate BR or F-class accuracy (which I define as anything in the range of Screamer-to-1/4 Minute range), I am pretty sure a low-power scope or irons are not going to allow that on a regular basis without extensive experience and training. Decades and decades worth.
     
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  5. Evlshnngns

    Evlshnngns

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    My factory r700 varmint 223 ( bought new in 2018, had stickers for 2016) has a 12twist, I tried atleast 20 different combos with no luck. Lots of time wasted. Best unrepeatable group was .75".

    Bought a 12fv savage .223 to replace it, now bullet holes touch at 100yd. It showed promise in the first 15 shots.

    ANY factory gun is a gamble.
     
  6. mike a

    mike a 6BR Rocks Gold $$ Contributor

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    Bet that will cheer the op up. If he's still out there. Mike
     
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  7. Neogakai

    Neogakai

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    Thanks for all the great suggestions! I have quite a few suggestions to work with and I'm waiting on the different ammo. I'll keep you posted. I'm learning a lot and practice, practice practice! To answer some questions: Yes, 1 in 9 twist, 20" barrel; 90 yards is just a convenient shooting lane in my yard without having to cut any trees (which I will get to eventually): The 150 yards is down an incline; using a Caldwell front bag and rear v bag. I bought the rifle and scope at a large gun store with good reviews but they did not mount the scope correctly (and sort of mangled the screw for the rear base);I installed the Grayboe stock myself with a torque wrench; factory setting on trigger but will get a pull gauge; I think I may be having the same eyesight issues as joshb;first picture is @ 90 yds, second is @ 150 yds.
    Maybe part of the problems is I tilt the rifle to try and get the crosshairs lever and may not be doing it the same each time.
    Also, it's clear that I can't hold the camera level anyway so I probably won't do any better with the Remington.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  8. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    Factory trigger setting, 3-9X scope, commercial ammunition that may not be the rifle's favorite...all of these are likely making a contribution to the modest accuracy/precision you're experiencing. Obviously, the easiest thing to do as a starting point is to test different types of commercial ammunition to find one the rifle prefers. All you need is one box each of as many different brands that cover a range of bullets, velocities, etc., as you can afford. Chances are you will find one or two that will be heads/shoulders better than the others.

    Optimizing the trigger setting is another thing you can do that might not even cost you a single cent, if you can adjust the current trigger to your liking. Follow the directions, and don't try to push the envelope on how low you can set the pull weight initially, as setting the trigger pull too low can often be a safety concern.

    Fixing the low magnification on the scope is likely to be a much more expensive fix. I'd worry about that when you can afford to do so, and not before. In other words, save up, if necessary, to get a quality optic. Don't rush out and buy something you may not be happy with later, simply because it goes up to 25X or 30X, or even higher. Good glass is an investment and will last a very long time...it's worth taking your time and purchasing the right glass for your application(s). You can spend pretty close to however much you want and the following manufacturers are listed in what I would generally consider increasing price: Sightron, Vortex, Nightforce, March. There are plenty of others to choose from as well. Find the best scope that suits your needs, even if it takes a while to get it. I would not recommend "settling" for something in the meantime; that's just more money out of your pocket.

    Over the long term, I would consider learning to reload if you don't already. You can certainly try to find a commercial ammunition that the rifle likes, but this is really just a poor man's approach to reloading. Reloading gives you the opportunity to select the bullet you want to use, and then to optimize the load for your specific setup. It usually pays off big in terms of precision/accuracy.
     
  9. ebb

    ebb

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    My 1in9 223 Remington shoots Berger 73 grain bullets quite well try them you might like em.
     
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  10. Neogakai

    Neogakai

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    I have those on order as well as Federal 69 gr bthp and I’m optimistic one will be good.
     
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  11. K22

    K22

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    Lots of issues here.

    The scope must be level with the axis of the rifle - check it - this isn't hard to do.

    An 1 1/4" group with an unaltered factory rifle shooting factory ammunition is not unusual - pretty much on par.

    My 9" twist Vanguard shoots 55 Nosler BT's about .5 to .6 off the bench but this is a hand load. 55 grain bullets should work in a 9" twist.

    The problem w/ a 3 x 9 scope is not so much with the magnification but the lack of parallax adjustment. Most are set for a 150 yards parallax free. However out to 200 yards you should be able to shoot in the 1 moa range (from scope issue) if the scope is clear. I have an old 3 x 9 Leupold, VX 2 on a 243 that has shot in the .5 to .7 range with reloads at 100 yards off the bench. But that was in the days when Leupold made a simple, high quality scope that mere mortals could afford.

    Stuck w/ shooting factory ammo you're going to have to experiment. I'd start with Federal Premium ammo with a bullet weight of 55 to 65. Bullet are normally the key factor - try several different ones. Sierra and Nosler are high quality bullets.

    Is the barrel free floated? If not I'd consider free floating it. Almost every rifle I've ever owned shot better with the barrel free floated.

    The new Remington's, at least the ones I've seen at the range, have horrible triggers. Don't expect to shoot small groups with a trigger pull over 3 lbs. and or with one that has a lot of creep or over travel. Have it replaced or worked on by a competent rifle smith.

    Are you allowing the barrel to cool between shots? I was at the range yesterday, in the 90's, and a guy had a new rifle, Ruger American. He was unhappy with his groups, I would be too, they were about 2" at 100 yards off the bench. This was no surprise to me, he was shooting so fast and so many rounds that the barrel was well over heated. His accuracy problem may be elsewhere but don't expect to shoot tight groups with a barrel so hot you can't touch it.
     
  12. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Get with @lancexxx and get you one of those sightrons he sells. He can set you up with the correct mount and scope to get you shooting small
     
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  13. mauser284

    mauser284

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    Wow!!! 1 3/4 is terrible.
     
  14. ebb

    ebb

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    When I bought the 73 grain Bergers I also bought a box of 75 grain Bergers. Many say that some 1in9 223s will shoot the 75s also. I have never tried the 75s as the 73s shoot so good. I will try them soon.
     
  15. msinc

    msinc

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    To the OP, I have to ask...have you ever shot a rifle with a good trigger?? All the ammo, practice, bullets, etc. cannot improve a poor trigger. And the current factory Remington "X Mark Pro" is just about the worst to come along in a good while. You'd have to drop all the way back to a Savage rimfire pre accu-jack, or whatever they called that thing, to get one worse.
    Many are making a big deal out of the scope reticle being perfectly level....I am wondering how that opens up a group at 90 yards???? Not saying don't worry about it or don't get it level, it should be...but I just don't know how that affects a group off a benchrest at 90 yards.
    Remington barrels are a gamble too. You got about a 50/50 chance at getting a factory barrel from them these days that will shoot. Honestly, and this is sad, when you buy a current Model 700 you bought an action. In your case you bought an action and stock. The last time I got a decent barrel on a factory new 700 was in 2002, I still have it. All I have gotten since is junk.
    There was a time when a guy could buy a new rifle, get a decent scope and some ammo, put it all together and go to the range and see a rifle that shot good and was ready to figure out what ammo it liked. Not no more. First thing I do is order a barrel and trigger. Good luck, you're gonna need it to shoot a new factory rifle.
     
  16. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Silver $$ Contributor

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    Everybody had to start somewhere. You are at the begining of a long journey.

    Question is what is the purpose of this rifle and what.are.your expectations of accuracy?
     
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  17. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I have that same rifle,except it still has the original rubbery stock on it. I took it on as a low budget challenge . Quick story,I won't ramble.

    I started out with 1" groups with a 3x9 Leupold . Fast forward...I bedded the recoil lug ,replaced the trigger with a 50 dollar Shilen trigger I found on this fine forum . I also put a 6.5 x 20 Leupold on it .

    The bore on this rifle looks like it was carved with a cold chisel so I was quite surprised I could get it to shoot. By handloading for it I can keep it at 1/2" with the occasional .250" group. Mine really like 69 SMKs w/ Varget .

    Keep plugging away at it,I bet you will make great gains . Once you get more range time things will come easier .

    Found this group in my notes,that's about as small as I can get it most days...good enough for a factory rig for me.

    Good luck and have fun.

    Olive...group.JPG
     
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  18. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Site $$ Sponsor

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    A few thoughts. Some of it is probably you. I second the idea of asking an experienced shooter to try it.

    The scope being off level, while not ideal, is not causing your groups to open up. Think about it. What if the reticle was just a dot?

    Having the screw jacked up on the base could be a Huge problem. It takes very little movement at the scope to open groups up that much. Get the scope mounted solidly and properly.

    It’s a factory rifle. While some are capable of 1/2 minute accuracy out of the box with factory ammo, some aren’t. If you can find a combination that reliably gets under one minute for five shots, you’re doing well. The rifle is not capable of the accuracy numbers thrown around on this board- that’s guys with custom benchrest and f class rifles.

    If you are going to shoot factory ammo, you *must* try several options. Even my high dollar f class rifle will shot 1 3/4 MOA if I load it with exactly the wrong hand load. It’s capable of sub .3 MOA with the right hand load. It could be that the ammo you chose just doesn’t shoot in your rifle. If you find a good box, go buy more of the same lot if possible. Don’t go crazy. The next lot may or may not be as good.

    I would not go down the path of customizing the rifle until you get comfortable with what you’re doing. Chances are good that you’ll want something different down the road anyhow. But, what I would do is get an aftermarket trigger. It makes a big difference, and they can be resold or moved to a new rifle if you decide for a major upgrade in the form of a new rifle.

    Dry fire. Set up in your living room and aim at a spot on the wall. Safely- remove all life ammo from the room - get in position, go through the fundamentals in your head, and let off a “shot”. You will probably see significant movement of the cross hairs. That’s definitely you. Repeat until, well, forever. It’s the best way to get your fundamentals squared away.

    Bottom line is that this is just what the entrance to the rabbit hole looks like. Fix and learn and practice. Welcome.
     
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  19. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

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    One of my favorite little scopes is the old Weaver 36. I buy them from the “Scopes for sale” section on this forum for $300 to $350. They’re a good quality scope with enough magnification to see my target plainly at 100 yards. I have one that I use for sighting test loads in my “hunting guns”. It uses 1” rings. The same rings that my lower power 3-9, 4-12, 10x fixed, etc. use. I’ll put it on a gun, work up a good load, then move it to another gun I want to play with. If and when I want to sell that scope, I know I can get $300-350 for it on the sale board. ;)
    It’s on this old Remington 788 in 6mm Rem, right now. My project for today.
    24558520-C0F6-46A7-8E7C-315EFE9CF7C4.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  20. Neogakai

    Neogakai

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    That's more like it! First group @ 150 yds with Federal 73 gr Berger. Center black circle is 23/32nds. Why did it have to be the more expensive ones.
     

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