New Berger 208gr. and 220gr. .308 bullet?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by LRCampos, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. LRCampos

    LRCampos

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    .
    I saw on Facebook a post with a picture of what are two new .308 bullets from Berger, a 208gr. and a 220gr. And a few others.

    The author posted a photo of what looked liked a Berger folder with the bullets photos. He told that it was posted on a forum, probably by mistake, and withdraw a couple minutes later. Not before he saved it.

    Here is the photo... is that real?

    [​IMG]



    LRCampos.
     
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  2. Wingnut00

    Wingnut00 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Blue collar reloading has em listed on their site but says out of stock so I guess they are real. But that’s all I know.
     
  3. DukeDuke

    DukeDuke

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    no 218?, no 149?
    I'd like some 144.4
     
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  4. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    I saw the same post. It's possible that someone jumped the gun on releasing the info to the public. There are at east two outfits that sell reloading components that are currently advertising them online:

    https://www.brunoshooters.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=7793

    https://www.brunoshooters.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=7795

    https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!q=30485

    https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!q=30786

    Both vendors show them as currently "out of stock", suggesting they have not received any stock from Berger as yet, or else do not yet have permission to "officially" put them up for sale. Last year, the news apparently leaked out a few days early for at least a couple of the other bullets pictured on the advertisement photo you posted, just before they were about to be "officially" released; bullets that, in fact, have been available for purchase for some time now. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here. The 208/220 gr are simply two new 30 cal offerings from Berger that they haven't officially announced yet, but somehow the news leaked out. There's no reason to believe that the 208/220 gr 30 cal bullets shown in the photo are not "real" offerings about to be released from Berger.
     
  5. ahusted1978

    ahusted1978 F/TR in Pa Silver $$ Contributor

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    I saw the same photo on Instagram a few days ago, from Berger. I would say shot will probably be the official release
     
  6. JayBeeYou

    JayBeeYou

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    Go figure, we finally get the 200/20x figured out and dialed in with reamers, powders and speeds, and here comes a new shinier(is that a word?) bullet to figure out all over again. Got to keep the game moving I guess.:)
     
  7. BP1

    BP1 Team Texas F-TR Gold $$ Contributor

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    They will shoot with our reamer.
     
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  8. Laurie

    Laurie

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    Capstone Precision sent the press release on these out on 14th January and said they were 'currently shipping' them to distributors / dealers.

    Other new Capstone products in the same release include a Berger 245gn 308 EOL extreme range hunter, new Viht N555 powder coming in the spring, and two new SK .22LR grades.
     
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  9. Pinkes

    Pinkes

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    Was hoping for a new 190gr....:(
     
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  10. Laurie

    Laurie

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    Ohhh .... and one other very interesting product I forgot to mention. Lapua will produce large primer Creedmoor brass in addition to the V.1.0 SP version citing:

    "Lapua brings their successful 6.5 Creedmoor brass in a new Large Rifle Primer (LRP) offering. This satisfies the requirements of hand loaders shooting in inclement weather conditions where large primer ignition provides reliable ignition. Mil/LE approved for semi-auto applications, the new Creedmoor LRP brass provides the most accurate and reliable results to any rifle platform on the globe."

    This suggests not everybody is happy with SP ignition powder in the cartridge, but also note the mention of military usage suggesting the regular rumours of military interest in the 6.5 Creedmoor have some foundation.
     
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  11. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Site $$ Sponsor

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    Perhaps I'm being cynical, but an alternative take is that they are wanting to sell more to the PRS crowd, many of whom enjoy the sniper imagery. The sorts who feel like they want lube that will operate at -40 may also like the idea of cold weather primers. Side benefit is that the cases won't last as long.

    In spite of all the ribbing it gets here, the Creedmoor is a well-designed case in my opinion, but one that really ought to have a small primer for just about any imaginable civilian use. If they are really going to be making military cases, I'm guessing it would be an almost completely different line.
     
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  12. Laurie

    Laurie

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    An interesting point. The standard Lapua 308 and small primer 'Palma' variant are identical in the lots I've compared, primer pockets and flash-hole dimensions aside. That suggests that a single production line deviates when the primer pocket forming operation is reached, then resumes normal operations for subsequent steps, maybe repeating the diversion if flash-hole punching is done later in the sequence. I imagine Lapua will do the same for its Creedmoor brass.

    I do wonder if different spec military brass is set up as a quite different operation from the commercial stuff or if the two share basic specs these days. I wouldn't be surprised if basic dimensions are common these days, but military stuff uses a different brass alloy mix and hardness.

    The first Lapua brass I came across was back in the '80s when new US made brass was both rare and expensive in the UK and European made equivalents were still overwhelmingly Berdan primed and therefore unattractive to handloaders, hydraulic and pick-type Berdan decappers notwithstanding. There was a thriving business in once-fired Boxer 308 and similar cases, mostly Winchester and Norma, originating with police range use or from shooting organisations who'd bought large batches for match issue. One highly prized lot available for a relatively short time was '7.62X51' headstamped Lapua. IIRC, it didn't have crimped primers, (or they may have been cleaned out by the vendor), but it was much heavier / thicker than our later 308 Win Lapua equivalents. Far from being seen as a downside, the heavy build was prized as promising long life which engaged most handloaders much more than precision related aspects in those days.
     
  13. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    Perhaps the new management has a slightly different business model. There are commonalities among some of the bullets listed on the yellow flier that suggest to me a different marketing approach may be in play at Berger now.
     
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  14. HomeSlice

    HomeSlice

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    They've got the 208s available for order this morning...
     
  15. Mr.Knowit all

    Mr.Knowit all Silver $$ Contributor

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    LOL.... I guess there goes their 215s....? 208s have the same BC as the 215s and are a lil lighter. I guess Berger (all great people there) had to copy Hornady with the 208s
    I mean they both have the same BC as well, Hornady and Berger 208s.... you just get to pay ~16-20$ more a box for Berger's
     
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  16. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    [QUOTE="Mr.Knowit all, post: 37693352, member:...208s have the same BC as the 215s and are a lil lighter...[/QUOTE]

    Only because the 208s come pointed from the manufacturer, whereas the 215s do not. The comparison is therefore apples to oranges. If the 208s are compared to pointed 215s, the 215s will still enjoy something like at least a 4-5% BC advantage. The actual difference in performance (windage) at some specified distance may not be quite as great as the difference in pointed BCs might suggest, due to the difference in weight/velocity that you noted.

    I am interested to see at what velocities these 208s and 220s actually tune in at in people's F-TR rifles, relative to existing loads with 200.20X and 215 Hybrids. That will provide a lot more information about what kind of performance differences can realistically be expected from these new bullets relative to Berger's existing designs.
     
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  17. 46and2

    46and2

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  18. APGE

    APGE

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    I am interested to see at what velocities these 208s and 220s actually tune in at in people's F-TR rifles, relative to existing loads with 200.20X and 215 Hybrids. That will provide a lot more information about what kind of performance differences can realistically be expected from these new bullets relative to Berger's existing designs.[/QUOTE]

    210 LRBTs tune at around 2580fps in two of my barrels (32"). I would expect the 208 to tune at something very similar. Higher nodes at 2600-2640 were identified, but pressure was on the high side.
     
  19. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    210 LRBTs tune at around 2580fps in two of my barrels (32"). I would expect the 208 to tune at something very similar. Higher nodes at 2600-2640 were identified, but pressure was on the high side.[/QUOTE]

    Those numbers are in line with what I was thinking. Bullets generally tune in at specific velocity bands in a given barrel length, according to their weight. A bullet weight difference of as little as a few grains can make a big difference in the velocity of a tuned load. A direct "apples to apples" comparison of two fairly similar bullets of slightly different weights requires both their tuned velocities and their ultimate BCs (i.e. whether pointed during manufacture or pointed by the end user). Using reasonable estimates for tuned velocity and BC values, I don't think the 208s and 220s are going to represent a quantum leap over the performance currently available from pointed 200.20X and 215 Hybrids. However, such theoretical estimates cannot take into account any potential improvements that may have been achieved in terms of bullet-to-bullet BC consistency. If the BC of these bullets is more consistent within a given Lot#, I would consider that a worthwhile improvement.
     
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  20. APGE

    APGE

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    I'm more interested in how easy they will be to tune. Sierra's 200gr offering seems to be quite the white elephant, despite its very high BC. The same could be said for their 197 7mm and possibly the new Hornady A-Tips. All the BC in the world is not worth a damn if you can't get them to shoot easily and accurately.

    That's part of the reason I have a stock of 210 lrbt. They don't have the sexiest BC out there, but they are as easy to tune as a juggernaut and offer a ballistic result about halfway between juggernauts at 2750 and 200.20x at 2680. A happy compromise.
     
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