my 300 Whisper project

Discussion in 'Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing' started by strobes, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. strobes

    strobes

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    Ok, here is my 300 Whisper I was working on for last 2.5 month and it's finally done!
    I used this forum many times and wanted to say thank you to every one who helped me!
    Now I'd like to return the favors and help others to find answer to the questions they may have.
    I spend many- many hours researching materials, tools, parts, methods, spoke with vendors and manufacturers
    to make this project right and on smallest possible budget.

    So for starter here it is:
    1. Stevens 200 in .308, I selected .308 as a most versatile caliber with plans to use 300 Whisper for fun and hogs.
    Than switch barrel and go after long shoots hunting west TX)
    2. 300 Whisper build by Sin_Arms - very good person to work with and reasonable prices.
    It's based on Brux blank.
    20', #5 Bull sportster contour
    prefit, drop in build for Stevens 200,
    1 in 8' twist, threaded for a suppressor 5/8X24, crowned 11 degrees, same size thread protector.
    cut to SAAMI spec
    3. Trigger was polished to crisp 2.5lb.
    4.The bolt face in .223 and recoil lug from SSS. It took more than 7 weeks to get parts.
    Still they send me incorrect box mag. I'd take my money some were else next time.
    Hope my experience was just an exception...
    4. Stock is sanded, action bedded using Devcon, front of the stock is reinforced with two pieces of steel and fiberglass tubes inside.
    5. All parts sand blasted and refinished with Gun Kote. https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=26
    Stock with 1200 air cure paint in Flat Light OD and Flat black
    All metal parts with 2404 baked on Flat Tan Dark Earth, Flat Light OD and Flat black.
    5. Scope mount is from EGW http://www.egw-guns.com/- my second one - very good product.
    I had to cancel order for scope with Optics Planet this week after 8 weeks of waiting.
    And ordered it from foxoptic.com Better prices and very good service.
    I expect the scope this Wed. Loading ammo this week and may report load data
    and grouping next week.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Johnboy

    Johnboy

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    Aug 13, 2008
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    hey it looks good.just don't set it down and forget were.may not find it again.keep us informed on how things are going.
    Johnboy
     
  3. squirrelsnpr

    squirrelsnpr

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    Jan 29, 2009
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    Please post targets from the range. I am very interested in build the same gun, just didn't know how well it would shoot.

    I'm out in CA so I have a snow balls chance in hell of getting a suppressor for it. If there is some way to let me know how loud it is I would definatley owe you a beer.
     
  4. strobes

    strobes

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    I still fire form brass using 180gr SMKs loaded with 8.5Gr Alliant Unique at 80% of max pressure, velocties are about 1380fps. And braking in the barrel.
    @100yard I'm getting 1.5" groups. I have so far about 20 rounds fired.
    Planning to go back to the range with some test loads build on fire formed barass with 8.6 Gr H110, 220GR SMK,
    expecting 1000FPS and 100bar muzzel pressure.
    If all goes well will try to post a clip on YouTube next week with sound for you Squirelsnpr :)
    And some one asked for action vise drawings, So I post them in a day or so too.
     
  5. strobes

    strobes

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    These pictures are good representation of how this rifle was shooting today. I had about 75 FPS deviation in speed and this explains stringing I guess. No pressure signs on supersonic, so I try to push it up to 2400 FPS.
    Subsonic is quite. No clips yet because the range was very busy – one week before deer season in TX.
    Or find a private land because on public range there is always some one near by is shooting.
    (If you don't see pictures, here is direct links
    http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/effa0e96ef.jpg
    http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c2087054e1.jpg )

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. squirrelsnpr

    squirrelsnpr

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    Thanks for the range update. It looks like it's going well. Ah, the joys of fine tuning loads for a new rifle. You must be having fun with little reloading data.
     
  7. farmerjohn

    farmerjohn Site $$ Contributor

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    Hello fokes, You dang guys ought to be beat with a wet rope. Here I was looking through the posts, hunting for some info on rate of twist for my for my 22br winter project and I run across something I started 20 years ago and two years later got frustrated and put to one side. In the early nineties I started doing some digging in some of the projects invloving suppressors during the Viet Nam war. I found that the"agency" experimented with a wide array of calibers from 22 thru .458 in both handguns and rifles as well as full autos. Researching the results I found some ballistics that were hard to believe, if you have a good computer program just check out a 300 gr. .338 serria matchking @ 1040fps. The trajectry is amazing but take a look at the retained downrange velocity. The big boys tell me such is made possible by the fact that by leaving the barrel at less than the speed of sound the bullet does not experience the buffeting effect of acelerating and decelerating thru the mach zones. Anyway, as I already had a H&K USP 45 with the Knight suppressor and was looking around for other guns to screw it onto as the paper work goes with the can itself not the firearm. The best bullet was the .338 so we set about finding a case the would move it around the speed of sound. More research showed Fred Barnes had already done this back in the sixties with the 308X1&1/2 Barnes. I was looking through my brass and came up with the 7br. Rem case, hand formed a case, seated a 300 gr. Serria MK, sent the round to JGS, had them send a print of the reamer to Redding and went to work on the rifle while I was waiting. Trued a 722 Rem SA, Tubb's lug, pillar bedded molded stock, reworked trigger, and finished up with an air gaged, one in ten Duglass barrel. Put it all together, loaded up the 300 grainers with enough Lit'l Gun (from prior reaserch) to make 1040fps and off to my range. Long story short, the ten twist wouldn't stablize the long bullet at such a low velocity. Group looked like buckshot. Called Duglass, one in eight was all they could do in a .338 so I got that under way and waited. Back then we didn't have CNC lathes and it took half a day to change gears on our equipment to cut the bastardized H&K lefthanded threads, oring grooves, and two step shoulders for the can. It took longer to do that than to chamber it ,but if we didn't, we would have to unscrew the barrel to thread it for the Knight if the thing worked. This took several months to come together and again we headed for the range. Bore sighted at forty yards, five shots made a single hole, we were grinning from ear to ear. Moved out to 100, screwed the can on and fired five, you could hear the firing pinhit the primer, the recoil spring in the can was the loudest sound when the rifle fired. We could'nt quit grinning, walked down to look at the paper and the group was about five inches with the bullets hitting sideways and tumbling. At this point my buddy suggested trying shorter bullets but I was so ticked off I just put the whole mess away and forgot about it. Earlier this year a friend got interested in quiet guns and I ordered a NEF 45 Colt in one of their Handi-rifles and have been having a ball. It took about two hours for my buddy standing in front of the little TV on the CNC lathe and presto, it takes about 30 seconds to cut the muzzle for the Knight. With 300 gr. Nosler hollowpoints at 1040 it sounds like a Red Rider BB gun and groups 1&1/2 @ 50 yds. Talk about a sledge-hammer, it shoots through a 250 pound hog endways and leaves a hole about the size of a doorknob. It's so much fun I found another Handie=rifle in a .357 mag. with 22 inch barrel and same story. I been working up some 200 grain hard cast bullets for it and it looks real good on paper out to 100yds which is as far as we normally shoot hogs. I'll get my son(I'm too old for the computer age) to take some pictures of the guns and put them up for you'all.
    Now because of you I going to have to dig out the .338 and start again and see if the shorter bullets will work, now let me see, where in the hell did I put my old notes................................JF
     
  8. strobes

    strobes

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    Hey JF, I suppose this is a good change to your life? ;)

    Some time ago I had PM asking how the budged for this project brakes down. So here you are:
    Stevens 200 in .308 - $310
    Barrel - - $450
    SSS recoil lug and .223 bolt face - $85
    .223 mag from Savage - $32
    EGW rail and rings directly from EGW - $170
    Used Redding dies 300/.221 dies about $65
    Qty. 100 .221 fireball brass Midway - $42
    Barrel wretch - $45
    Devcon to bed the stock, material to refinish it, paint, some tools, air brash - $150
    So roughly about $1349. Plus a scope. And may hours of fun working on this project ;D
     
  9. farmerjohn

    farmerjohn Site $$ Contributor

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    Hey strobes, Please overlook mispellings as I have not found spellcheck on this new format that 6br has now. 31 buttons and no spellcheck, as you can tell I'm not good with computers. Anyway, I dug out my old brass, dies, and notes. I am going to work on some 250 gr bullets this week. I sent my 33 Ohler to Texas, got it going again, those sure are nice people to deal with, they have fixed the chronograph because I left the batterys in so long they coroaded at least 4 times since 1975 and never charged me. You should look at buying a Knight, I don't know what they cost now probably around 1300$ or so, the licsence is another 250$ but then you can put it on anything. Even though its a 45 cal it works well on 30 cal and up. Like I said its a ball on the single shot NEF's. Will let you Know how it works out. JF
     
  10. strobes

    strobes

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    I spend some time shooting the rifle yesterday.
    With 20.9Gr H110 the 125Gr Nosler BP goes around 2412FPS.
    And with 9.5Gr H110 220SMK goes about 1010FPS.
    Grouping for supersonic and has potential to be less than .7MOA or better. (It may be my skills keep groups open, but the rifle can do better.)

    But subsonic still the same compare to last time.
    I think supersonic with H110 is sensitive not only to position of the powder but to temperatures too. I need to find powder that has the same burn rate as the H100 but has more volume.
    Like Clays but it too fast.
    Also I see people drill primers hole biger. May be this will help to produce more uniform ignition?
    Sad part I don't know when I can return to this project. Priorities are changing and money tight...
     
  11. ROBSTER

    ROBSTER

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    Sep 23, 2009
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    I USE 8.6 GRAINS OF HP-38 IN MY 338 WHISPER WITH 200 GRAIN BALISTIC TIPS AT ABOUT 1050 FPS.
     
  12. Spook

    Spook Captured too late to be fully domesticated.

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    why is the barrel so long?
     
  13. strobes

    strobes

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    Reasons are here and link to some of the resources used below. I know most of the Whispers build on short barrels. But this data in theory shows that 20" is still reasonably good compromise.
    http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/65a70564b7.jpg
    [​IMG]

    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA112290&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
    http://www.the-long-family.com/shock%20wave%20theory%20summary%20explanation.pdf
    http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm
    http://home.comcast.net/~davidawilson/LongRange/OBT_Process.pdf
     
  14. Spook

    Spook Captured too late to be fully domesticated.

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    ...without attempting to put you or your project in anything but a positive light...what compromise were you hoping to reach?
     
  15. strobes

    strobes

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    Spook appreciate your considerations. Like been sad the summary based on research using published papers and hypothesis.
    Reading post on web I have found no empirical evidence that shorter barrel is superior. The theory shows opposite I think.
    But may be your experience is different considering you make barrels and rifles professionally.

    The goal for this project was:
    1. max possible velocity for supersonic with sub MOA grouping - accomplished
    2. best possible grouping with subsonic - 1.5 - 2.0 MOA is what I see now. The goal is sub MOA.
    I think ~1 MOA is reasonable expectation. But not less than that.
    3. lowest peak sound pressure level
    4. light hunting rifle
    item #1 has highest priority compare to #4 on the list.
    So the compromise was to balances these requirements.
     
  16. lazylabs

    lazylabs

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    Jan 30, 2007
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    Strobes.... What twist barrel are you shooting? I am getting ready to build a 300/221 upper for my AR. Should be done in a week so maybe in a month it will be. Still building the can at the same time.
     
  17. strobes

    strobes

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    Lazylabs,
    1 in 8, this is a good balance for sub and supersonic.
    Slower than 8 and it'll have problem to stabilize heavy bullets above 220Gr @ subsonic velocities.
    This will give you and idea what you can do
    http://kwk.us/twist.html
    Good luck.
     
  18. cmillard

    cmillard Site $$ Contributor

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    have you tried the 240 matchkings? i love that bullet--shoot it out of my 30", 9"twist hart .300winmag. i have thought about doing a .300 whisper--just wish iowa allowed the use of sound suppressors!
     
  19. strobes

    strobes

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    cmillard,
    For subsonic, I think 30" compensates for slower twist:
    Bullet has more barrel time to get up to required rotational speed to be stable. How do they group? I bet it's very quite.
     
  20. cmillard

    cmillard Site $$ Contributor

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    group great--i have shot great results with IMR 7828 ssc and am currently shooting Hodgdon Retumbo--ive loaded it all the way up to 2900 fps. the 240s really like about 2700-2730 fps out of the 30" tube with both of the powders above.
     

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