Low Budget ELR

Discussion in 'ELR, Ballistics & Bullets Board' started by 6ShotsOr5?, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    What is your opinion on a decent performing but still low-budget factory rifle and factory ammo for 1-1.5 mile ELR in calibers smaller than .375 CheyTac? I may attend an ELR class with a friend shooting a .375 CheyTac with 361gr Flatline solid copper bullets at 3025 fps from an 8 twist barrel, and his set up is supersonic to ~ 2380 yds at sea level. His gear is over my budget and I want to get something that will not reach quite so far but at a much lower cost. My two current LR rifles shoot .264 bullets and are supersonic to around 1100 yds at sea level. I know there are some decent factory rifle options below $1000 in 7mm Mag or 338 Lapua Mag. I think something else like a 7mm RUM or 338 RUM may perform better but rifles and decent factory ammo costs will probably be higher. The combinations I'm looking at with 7mm Mag or 338 Lapua Mag are supersonic to around 1600-1700 yards at sea level with a sub-$1000 street price rifle and $2.50 to $3.50 per round factory ammo. The single shot Savage Magnum Target in 338 Lapua Mag has a 26" barrel, a "factory blueprinted" action and an AccuTrigger which I haven't tried but reviewers say is actually pretty good. There are some Remington 700 options that I can add a better trigger and muzzle brake to and keep it close to $1000. Any other low-budget ELR setup options that may compete with the ones I mentioned in terms of range and cost?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  2. Tempest

    Tempest

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    We just shot a factory Savage .338 LM out to 2,000 yards this summer with good hand loads and decent accuracy IMO. Might have been better with a custom barrel but the wind calls were still 90% of the issue where we shot.

    A 300g Berger going 2,800 from the muzzle will be super sonic still at 1,000 ft elevation for 2,000 yards. Pretty close at sea level if you push it a bit faster.
     
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  3. Delfuego

    Delfuego

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    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, "low budget" and ELR do not go in the same sentence together. If you really want to shoot ELR, you need to spend the money. Do not forget that you need a very good scope to shoot at those distances. Highend scopes are not cheap either. I think the recipe your currently cooking will just make a lot of expensive holes in the ground...

    Take a look at this rifle. This is a pretty good deal and will make 2k without issue. Might even save you money in the long run.

    http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/338lm-improved-elr-rig-proven-and-ready-to-go.3931246/
     
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  4. Kurz

    Kurz

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    If you choose to live with your budget, I think that the next decision you have to make is to what degree of accuracy your are willing to live with given your budget constraints. Sure, you can probably do just fine to 1,000 yards with a budget rifle but those next 1640 yards out to the 1.5 miles will really wreak havoc on your ability to achieve decent accuracy.

    The three basic failings of your idea are:

    - cost of the glass required to accomplish 2,640 yard 'groups'.
    - length of a factory barrel necessary to achieve the required velocity to achieve those groups.
    - factory ammunition loaded with those bullets necessary to achieve those distances and groups.

    The easiest solution is the .338 Lapua of course since there are several qualifying factory loads for long range target shooting. However, getting that quality of ammunition will certainly not fall in your prices as stated. $5.00 to over $8.00 per shot is more likely. The you will need to test any of the loads which might prove to have the accuracy you're looking for.

    Sightron scopes in the SVSS1050x60 version are just about the minimum usable scope for decent accuracy and target evaluation but at right around $2,000.00, they are not 'budget'. Of course you can fall back and regroup around the Weaver straight 36x scopes currently on sale under $400.00 but you will find them to be inadequate at 2,640 yards.

    ELR target shooting is often a battle of horsepower and BC. Horsepower is enhanced by barrel length and the factory limits of 26" is mostly a downfall to ELR velocities.

    The disappointment you will experience with budget builds is debilitating. Rather than trying to scrape by with something less than adequate, I suggest putting this off until you can manage the costs of better equipment at a later date. Then trying to re-sell your budget equipment can be difficult as well. Maybe ask your buddy if you can pay for ammunition, would he be willing to share his rifle for you to shoot at the school? This way you get the school, the experience of shooting and a leap in knowledge regarding ELR target shooting, while avoiding the budget problems.

    Regards.
     
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  5. IdahoSharpshooter

    IdahoSharpshooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    I would respectfully disagree with those who would have you drop a couple thousand dollars on a rifle, plus a good scope (just) to start. In my opinion, that is what keeps too many shooters out of ELR. I have a Savage single shot 338 LM. I paid just over a grand for mine, NIB.
     
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  6. mram10

    mram10 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I would look into a Remington long range in 300rum. 225 eld with r33 will get you out a looooong ways. I agree with IS above, you can shoot elr without expensive rigs. Keep us updated
     
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  7. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks to all for the suggestions, please keep them coming. I really like the suggestion to buy my buddy's ammo and help him wear out his .375 CT barrel -- I hope he likes that idea too. I also agree that good glass is needed. I never said anything about my budget for that. I have some mid-grade Leupolds (~ $1800) and some cheaper ones, and all but one are on Spuhr mounts. I can say that I was able to consistently hit a ~1.2 MOA target (measured by the reticle) at 1 mile using a factory rifle that cost $1200 after a new trigger and muzzle brake and a Leupold VX-3 LRP that I bought for less than $800. It met my goal -- having a lot of fun. For 1.5 miles I know I either need more MOA adjustment than my current scopes have or a 40 MOA mount or both, and I will probably spend $2000-2500 on another Spuhr mount and a scope, maybe a NF 8x32 NXS which seems like a good fit if it has enough MOA adjustment.
     
  8. Tempest

    Tempest

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    Get an NF ATCAR before a NXS for ELR. Mine has 90 MOA of elevation up from 100 yard zero with 20 MOA base.
     
  9. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks to all for the advice. I went with a Savage 110 BA Stealth in .338 LM. Many members on this and other forums have said they were very happy with the Savage accuracy right out of the box, and I got a very good Black Friday price 25% below list price and a $150 rebate also. I also got 10% off list prices on a NF ATACR 5-25x56 2F MOAR-T and a Spuhr 44 MOA mount from Brownells, with free shipping. The NF model I bought also comes with the NF anniversary model 10/22 worth around $350-400 so it is still a great deal. I will probably sell that 10/22 in a few months when it arrives because several 10/22s with VQ triggers already live at my place. Looking forward to trying out the new 285 gr ELD Match factory loads which were below $4 per round ( still not cheap ...) and checking velocities on those when all the stuff arrives.
     
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  10. mram10

    mram10 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Keep us updated and post target pics
     
  11. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    The 2 most important items are your barrel and scope. Put your money there. 338 edge on a rem will get you to about 2k.
     
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  12. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the feedback mram10 and Alex. I will post something. Since I don’t reload yet, I am working on load development for some Warner Tool 255.5 gr Flat Line bullets with a custom ammo loader. We are working on seating depth now. Tested starting at the lands, and my best group so far was seated the deepest, about 0.064” off the lands, 5 shot group max spread 1.515” at 201.2 yds. I’m going to try some seated even deeper. I will post the best group or two and the MVs once I find the best load with this bullet.

    I also found a factory load the rifle likes. For when I’m only trying to shoot less than a mile or so. HSM makes loads for the 300gr Berger Hybrid OTM Tactical bullet in two different COALs. My rifle didn’t like the 3.76 COAL but I shot a few 5 groups with max spread 0.55 to 0.60 inches at 102 yds with the other HSM load, COAL 3.68”. It looks like this rifle likes some jump, at least from what I’ve seen so far. None of the other factory loads I tested shot that well. I will probably get around to measuring the COAL’s on the leftovers, and probably just pull a bullet from one of those 3.76 rounds so I can use my Hornady gauge to find out how far off the lands I was with that load. Then I’m going to find somebody who will seat the other ammo I bought a little deeper for me, or I will just save it and do it myself when I start rolling my own in a few years. These are pricey, don’t want to waste any!

    I don’t know if I’ll get to practice past 600 yds with the 338 before I go to Raton sometime this summer. My home range only goes to 600. There’s another range I can use 1-1/2 hours from my house that’s got targets out to 1100 yds but it’s got a .30 cal maximum limit, so I only use my .264 cal Rifles there. 1100 yds is a good challenge with factory ammo with my .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor - don’t tell Hogpatrol. I didn’t know about that .30 cal limit at the Cawthon Range and I had not even heard of a 300 Norma Mag when I bought the 338 LM. The 300 Norma Mag looks like something I will buy when I wear out the 338 LM — if not sooner. :cool:
     
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  13. 22DASHER

    22DASHER Gold $$ Contributor

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    @hogpatrol :D
     
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  14. wi50

    wi50 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Speaking of low budget. My .375 cheytac is as cheap as it gets. I bought a bolt for an action I had, which led to the "buddy" deal on a complete action with cosmetic blem. We're talking the difference from the price of a bare bolt to a complete action was about the difference in the price of a tank of gas in the pickup truck. I built the stock from raw materials, I made the scope base from pic rail stock. The barrel cost me the normal rate for a premium cut rifled barrel. I bought a $250 trigger. Piercision brake, $125. I've got a nice .375 cheytac with a premium 36" barrel all for about $1500.
     
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  15. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Hey, I saw that fine print. :D I give the Creedmoors credit for bringing in more shooters to try longer than 100 yards. On top of that, for the peasants shooting factory ammo, it's a great choice. :p:D a-outta.gif
     
  16. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Ok, then the most important thing is buying reloading equipment. This should be a priority.
     
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  17. mram10

    mram10 Silver $$ Contributor

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    As for load testing, have you tried groups at 600 since that is the most your close range allows? I shoot better groups further out than at 200. Must be me not focusing and being picky with my form. Try it if you get bored.
     
  18. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    mram10, I know what you mean, sometimes I think too much scope power makes me think about the wiggles instead of following a good shot routine. I havent shot the 600 yet with the 338LM, but I will soon if the range ever dries out. When it’s muddy we usually just ring steel at 600 — including a .7 MOA lollipop — because we aren’t allowed to drive down to the target area when it’s too muddy and the poor guys shooting 200 have to take a pretty long cease fire while waiting on us, or maybe it’s because we’re too lazy to slog all the way down there in the mud.
     
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  19. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    That sounds like a real bargain. I have no experience with woodworking. Making a rail sounds like something I could muddle through if I didn’t want it tilted. Are you pleased with how it shoots?
     
  20. hottshott526

    hottshott526 Silver $$ Contributor

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    The cheapest way to achieve an ELR rifle is to.......

    Strap that Nightforce to the free 10-22 when it arrives and sell the Savage. Buy all the Eley red box tenex you can get with the funds you get from selling the Savage.

    It says right on the box "dangerous to 1.5 miles"


    There you go, thank me later
     
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