Looking for best balance point

Discussion in '6BR, 6BR Improved & Wildcats' started by magic mike, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    My current project is a Savage 12 Benchrest in 6mmBR. My question is, where should the balance point of the rifle be in order to achieve the best tracking on recoil? The gun is very nose heavy in its stock form and I am wondering if drilling the butt and putting some weight in it in an effort to move the balance point closer to the recoil lug would be worth the effort. Any sage advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  2. SPJ

    SPJ Silver $$ Contributor

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    Got a picture?
     
  3. SavageMark

    SavageMark

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    32CE1340-15D0-4C2B-B8A2-DD9A42E448A8.jpeg
    This is the F class which is the same as the benchrest except for an angle on buttstock !
     
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  4. SPJ

    SPJ Silver $$ Contributor

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    Is your barrel 29 inch?
    Several people carefully drill out the butt stock and add weight
     
  5. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes, it is a 29" barrel and yes it has an angled butt stock with a flat 3" wide forearm. Drilling the stock to add weight would be my plan, just want to know where the best balance point would be.
     
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  6. BRGUY

    BRGUY

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    I always use the recoil lug area as a balance point, and actually like it just a little bit nose heavy from there, but not by much.
     
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  7. SPJ

    SPJ Silver $$ Contributor

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    Don’t know why Savage puts that long ass barrel on that rifle, it doesn’t need it.
     
  8. oldduc

    oldduc Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well, I don't know, I've always heard that another 2" will get you there so I replaced the 29" barrel on my F-Class Savage with a 31" Krieger.;)
     
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  9. SPJ

    SPJ Silver $$ Contributor

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    Gary
    my wife said something similar;)
    J
     
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  10. tonyb

    tonyb Silver $$ Contributor

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    Going from 1” to 3” isn’t going to help much! LOL!!!
     
  11. johara1

    johara1

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    The best balance point is 1.5 to 2" in front of the receiver. I use a sandwich bag taped to the rear of the stock. I and shot till I get it balanced and weigh it. Then melt it down and cast weights out of copper water pipe. Drill a hole or holes to hold the weights 2 weights in the rear are better than one long one..... jim
     
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  12. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thank you Jim. I'll give it a shot.
     
  13. johara1

    johara1

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    There are a lot of high dollar ways but this one one works, you will need a forstner bit and maybe an extension.... jim
     
  14. Mikemontminy

    Mikemontminy

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    Clamp a piece of wood to each side of the stock letting them hang out on the back side. That way you can keep the back of the drill bit or extension centered between the two pieces. This will help you drill your hole inline with the stock. You don’t want the bit drilling thru and coming out the side of your stock. Also as far as weight goes I set my rifles up in the rear bag with the front of the rifle on a scale to check weight. Then put the rifle in the front rest with the scale on the back to see what that weight is. Then I try to add enough weight to the back to balance it out and also keep the overall weight below what’s allowed for your class. Good luck.
     
  15. Rocketvapor

    Rocketvapor

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    I question a balance point reference so many inches from the receiver? Probably is correct but that doesn't address bag or rest contact points, barrel length, barrel overhang, etc.
    If you take a 22 pound F-Open gun, 30" really heavy barrel, I would think the % of weight on the front rest would be important. For tracking aren't we trying to compensate for barrel lift and rotation?
    Would 11 pounds on the front rest, 11 on the rear bag be better than 16 on the front rest and 6 on the rear bag?
    I've read about folks that try a few front rest contact points, the A,B,C,D thing.
    No changes in the actual rifle balance but the on the rest balance is changed.
    If you have room in your weight allowance, like your rifle full up is only 20 pounds, do you want that extra 2 pounds in the stock or maybe an extra heavy bag rider or forearm weight?

    Which would help more with jump? Disregarding dynamics like polar moments :)
    Would a "balance point" closer to the front result in less jump that one closer to the middle? or rear?
    Grab the barrel, lift up and to the left. Balance to resist that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  16. Rocketvapor

    Rocketvapor

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    I watched the view count go up, so I'll toss out some more questions and ideas to confront the paradigms of rifle balance.
    Not carrying in the woods, or offhand shooting but from a front rest and bag, F-Open style.
    The new trend in front bags is THIN. Big 'ol puffy bags are out. Tie down to compress the center of the channel, Rail shaped stocks and riders.
    Narrow side contact so that the bag can be clamped down to shape to the rails, then loosened so the rifle will still free recoil.
    Enough clamping to add some resistance to rise but not enough to Partially Lift a 30+ pound front rest.
    Lowering the rifle CG (mostly barrel bore center) to the front and rear contact points.
    The 3 inch wide rule was put there for a purpose and most try and get the most of out the rule limitations as possible.
    The bore centerline ends up being 1.5 inches from the edge of the rider and 1.5 inches or more up from the sliding contact. Top heavy.

    Since Free Recoil (or almost free) is popular in rested shooting, how about this:
    A heavy front rest, a thin front bag, a center channel of no contact, slight clamping of the rider in rise but not recoil, front rest loading of 90%of the rifle weight (10% on the rear). Contact shooter/rifle limited to wild nose hairs on the cheek rest, trigger pinching, and the off hand index finger pushing straight down on the stock with about 20% of the rifle weight (about 5 pounds or so)
    Static load is about 20 pounds on the front rest, 2 on the rear.
    Dynamic load up front is 20 pounds dead weight, plus maybe 5 pounds vertical restraining force from the front bag, minus any vertical firing lift.
    At the rear is 2 pounds dead weight, maybe some downward firing reaction, and maybe 5 pounds of downward finger pressure. Effectively a heavier rifle.
    Pinch the trigger and see what happens :)

    The barrel centerline is ALWAYS centered between the two rider rails up front, 3 inches apart. Static load on each side is pretty equally divided between the two rails and the rifle looks pretty when viewed from the right or the left (important).
    What happens to the load on the front bag when fired. Does the load shift? Maybe the left side (with a right hand twist) sees a higher dynamic load when free recoil is actually taking place? The rider tries to twist in the bag when fired. Would there be a better place to put the barrel centerline in the front bag?
    Just a thought but would low as possible and a little to the right in the bag?
    Nope, that would look Plain Stupid :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  17. johara1

    johara1

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    You can kick it around all you want but 1.5 to 2" ahead of the receiver will balance the gun perfect for short range free recoil and also works on long range 17 lb light gun 28 to 30" barrels now it will even work for F open but your rules state you have to hold stand contact your shoulder and it still works there also.The height of the bore and the width of the forend have no bearing at all with the balance. the final adjustment is the fore end stop, to fine tune. I sure shot a lot of small groups at 1000 doing it this way and with a 17 lb. gun and when you have to work in a weight limit and achieve balance is the hard part..... jim
     
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