Load development at distance

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by 4xforfun, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. 4xforfun

    4xforfun Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,277
    I 100 % agree that it is best that you work up loads at the distance you are going to compete at. But....the pretense has always been, to me anyway, that this applied to shooters who didn't have access to long enough shooting areas....and it was "best" to shoot at the longer ranges.

    My problem is going to be backwards.....I plan on cranking back up and shoot both 600 and 1000 yard matches, BUT...I am stuck with only 3 range choices this year.....100, 750, and 1000.

    Obviously I will be working up my 1000 loads on my 1000 yard target. My question is, would it hurt to work up loads at 750 or 1000 for my 600 yard comps?

    Does anyone use a different load for 600 and 1000 when using the same gun? I have never done any load work at 600, and the few 600 yard matches that I did shoot at I used my 1000 yard gear and loads and was always dissapointed at my finishes in the overall.

    Thanks,
    Tod
     
    dmoran likes this.
  2. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    193
    I work up at 100 because it's easier than verify at 600 or 1k. I've found the best performers at 100 do well at farther range.
     
  3. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    8,043
    lots of atmospheric variables trying to work up a load at distance. work up your load short then verify at distance.
     
    Comrade Terry and Rushty like this.
  4. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    When I started competitive high power rifle shooting, two National champions said if I used the same quality rifles and specific load data they did, my stuff would test as accurate as theirs. My marksmanship skills would determine my scores. And test long range loads at dawn when the atmosphere is stable.

    A few years later, I learned they were right. Rarely did I work up any load thereafter. What worked well at 600 did well at 1000.
     
  5. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    8,043
    the biggest groups shot at benchrest matches are usually shot first thing in the morning when the atmosphere is stable and no wind flag tails are even twitching.
     
  6. jr600yd

    jr600yd Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,004
    I agree with above ^^^. If your load shoots good at 1K it will shoot good at 600, if you do your part.
     
  7. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    @Dusty Stevens
    When do you verify, at a match?
    When you do verify, and the load isn't cutting it, do you go back to SR and re-tune, or how do you do it?

    Myself find SR development to "hit & miss" for me, primarily because some of the "missed" loads were real bad misses.
    When I switched to LR development, consistency in all my loads got better, and "missed" loads are more of a rarity. And pretty much always know what to expect, which often was not the case when I did them at SR.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    SPJ likes this.
  8. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    Tod (@4xforfun)
    My own experience; loads worked up at 1000 have worked well at 600.
    Loads worked up at 600, have still needed tweaking at 1000.
    My own 2-Cents
     
    SPJ, Mulligan, 4xforfun and 2 others like this.
  9. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    Does the ammo know what range it's shot at?

    Something is different, so thinks me. Time of day?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    ballisticdaddy likes this.
  10. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,816
    Thanks for this, this is my thoughts too. I've seen more loads developed at 100 fall apart downrange than vise versa. There will never be anything scientific in my load dev, and my loads developed at 500 usually hold good enough for my type of shooting beyond 1K yards.
    For some reason, if my load shoots 3 shots under 3/4" at 500 yards, when I finally zero my scope and shoot a couple groups at 100, the groups are usually pleasing to look at also.
     
    comagutsa, dkhunt14 and dmoran like this.
  11. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    @Bart B.
    Does the ammo know what range it's shot at?
    Same could be said for 50yds and 2000yds, does it?

    Something is different, so thinks me. Time of day?
    Never shot both 600 and 1000 at the same time, so the time of day, or day, obviously were different.
    But several times, have shot at 100 and 1000 at the same time with "shoot through targets", and is in part why I say what happens at SR does not always hold up very well at LR. As also has been my experience from Mid-Range to LR, and is why I wrote what I did to Tod.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    SPJ, comagutsa and CharlieNC like this.
  12. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    Of course, short, mid and long range groups don't subtend the same angle. Velocity spread and subtle winds make that happen.

    Sometimes positive compensation with tuners fix things at mid range or short and long ones. Damn those vibrating barrels!!!!

    If loads developed at 600 do well at 1000, but not the reverse thereof, something changed. If ammo and riflev did not change, either the person or environment did.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  13. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    How often does that happen?
     
  14. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    I'm betting more often for Milo then it does for you....lol :p
     
    TimS, pirate ammo and Comrade Terry like this.
  15. Bart B.

    Bart B.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    So would I. And I'm not laughing; out loud nor under my breath. One would be foolish to bet on me.
     
    pirate ammo and dmoran like this.
  16. 4xforfun

    4xforfun Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,277
    I guess I should add.....I shoot a lot at night....wait till midnight on an absolute windless nights and shoot under the lights. I feel confedent that I can find ZERO conditions to test.

    It seems that I will be OK for 600 testing at 750/1000 and don't need to find 600 anywhere. My range shoots across a field. I told the renter that he needs to leave me 6-8 feet around the edge of the field so I can access my berms. Of course...I am SOL after the 4th of July on the years when they plant corn. :D

    Thanks,
    Tod
     
    dmoran likes this.
  17. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    @Bart B.
    Well... you had your days, right !.!.!
    Times change, some for the better, some not.

    PS:
    An 84-year old Korean War Veteran, whooped up on the boys in Montana yesterday at there IBS-1000 match 4.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  18. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    4,426
    I do not shoot BenchRest, however, I do shoot F-Open at 500, 600 and 1000. It has been MY experience that you CAN load develop at say 1000 and obtain excellent groups. That being said, IF the E.S.'s are not tight, you MAY not have a good load at say 600 yards. Although L-O-W E.S.s are not always indicative of excellent groups at a given range, it can be indicative of accuracy across all ranges.. I have found, however, that if e.s.s are NOT tight it is not always possible to have excellent accuracy across all distances. Conversely, if you are shooting excellent groups at 1000 AND have tight e.s.s, you WILL get excellent accuracy all the way in to 300 yards! Not always so in the reverse!
     
    bpmoss1, JBT, Comrade Terry and 3 others like this.
  19. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,816
    Lol, I pay my dues in load development to make up for raw shooting ability. With a well built rifle, time and effort, non windy days, truthfully it's not that big of a deal, I'm talking 3 shots, not 5 or 10. The more I shoot at it, the worse it gets. I do not have any rifle that needs to be running next week, I have plenty to keep me shooting.
     
    eric n, dkhunt14 and dmoran like this.
  20. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,264
    ^^^^ I put high credits to anything Ben (@ShootDots ) has for reply.
    Know very few that shoot and/or test as much as Ben does. And he is a very accomplished shooter, who's marks are typically near the top of the score boards. PS: "When Ben speaks, I'm listening"....lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    bpmoss1, boltfluter, JBT and 3 others like this.

Share This Page