Hello, I just purchased a Lee Collet Die in 6.5 Creedmoor to mill down an use for a 6.5x47 Lapua... I've heard a lot of great ammo can be had by using this low cost die.. It would make scents because all the die does is act like a mandrel plus "irons" out the brass neck.. Have any of you guys modified a collet die for use with another caliber? Do any of you guys use collet dies, period? What's your experience using Lee Collet dies and producing straight ammo??? Any experience here would be appreciated.... Also, I tried the die out before milling off .075 for the 6.5 Lapua and noticed it works the brass down to the point it was made for a 6.5 Creed (.075) and leaves the bottom 35% of the neck untouched, so with this in mind do you recommend I modify the die only to size down a certain amount of the neck and not the whole neck??? Experiences????
"Lee Collet Die" Experience
- Thread starter SHootSTraight22
- Start date
I have a LOT of LEE tools!
I shoot long range bench rest and consistent loads are a must!
I started out with expensive custom bushing dies for my 6BRX and went back to a custom LEE collet die for 6BRX. I use the expensive bushing die for a body die with the bushing removed!
I built a 284 WIN heavy gun and started right off with a custom LEE collet die and bought an RCBS body die as Lee doesn't make body dies.
I started bench rest with a 243 WIN and ended up using a LEE collet die for neck sizing and an old LEE standard sizing die with the neck area opened up with a drill bit to clear the neck so it became a body die. Worked just fine!
My ammo is way more concentric with the collet dies than with the standard and bushing dies.
I would recommend the custom collet die as they are not too expensive and you send them fired cases and dummy ammo with the bullets you will be using. They send you a custom seating die also, but I use in-line dies for seating with a force measuring press.
I also use a LEE breech lock press and am hoping Santa ( my lovely wife) will get me a new Classic Cast breech lock press for Christmas! I have worn out the old aluminum press.
I also use a LEE powder measure for the preliminary charge to weigh and trickle with a lab balance. For Varget it is better than my #3 green monster! Lee seems to make high quality tools that are better engineered than most so they are also designed for inexpensive manufacturing with out sacrificing quality!
And, no, I don't work for LEE!!!
I shoot long range bench rest and consistent loads are a must!
I started out with expensive custom bushing dies for my 6BRX and went back to a custom LEE collet die for 6BRX. I use the expensive bushing die for a body die with the bushing removed!
I built a 284 WIN heavy gun and started right off with a custom LEE collet die and bought an RCBS body die as Lee doesn't make body dies.
I started bench rest with a 243 WIN and ended up using a LEE collet die for neck sizing and an old LEE standard sizing die with the neck area opened up with a drill bit to clear the neck so it became a body die. Worked just fine!
My ammo is way more concentric with the collet dies than with the standard and bushing dies.
I would recommend the custom collet die as they are not too expensive and you send them fired cases and dummy ammo with the bullets you will be using. They send you a custom seating die also, but I use in-line dies for seating with a force measuring press.
I also use a LEE breech lock press and am hoping Santa ( my lovely wife) will get me a new Classic Cast breech lock press for Christmas! I have worn out the old aluminum press.
I also use a LEE powder measure for the preliminary charge to weigh and trickle with a lab balance. For Varget it is better than my #3 green monster! Lee seems to make high quality tools that are better engineered than most so they are also designed for inexpensive manufacturing with out sacrificing quality!
And, no, I don't work for LEE!!!
I use redding body dies, Wilson neck & seating dies, and Sinclair mandrel expansion.SHootSTraight22 said:
There is nothing good in sizing the whole neck length. It serves only to mess up consistent tension.
I adjust my tension with sizing length(what she said), and with this I prefer bushings over collets.
I use Lee collet dies for my 308, 223 both of which I compete in ftr for. they have always produced great amo for me.
think of it like a neck die but without the bushing. I can control the amount of neck tension I want.
Just wish they had a micrometer adjuster other than that I have had no issues with them
Memo
think of it like a neck die but without the bushing. I can control the amount of neck tension I want.
Just wish they had a micrometer adjuster other than that I have had no issues with them
Memo
You can use a Lee collet die for an AI case and it is easy to modify a Lee collet die for a LONGER case, like using a 7-08 die for a 7x444, you just add spacers (washers). But when you shorten a Lee collet die you have to modify the inside of the die and the mandrel as well as the length. There is a guy here on the board that did one for me, he talked about doing it as a cottage industry and I won't divulge his name. He shortened a 260 Lee collet to a 6.5x47L and it works perfectly. If he contacts you, I recommend him. I believe Lee is now charging $150 for a custom die. You do have to measure carefully to make sure the modified die is not touching the shoulder.
Bill
Bill
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
SHootSTraight22 said:
LCD's work great, but even on a non-custom LCD, I'd still recommend taking it apart and polishing contact surfaces. I've found LCD's to produce very straight ammo, if that's a measure you look for. If you shorten the die, you'll need to modify the die body, the insert (collet), and the mandrel.
By the way!
I forgot to mention that I use various custom diam. mandrels in my LEE collet dies to control seating force. I use a metered press to monitor seating force and I just pick the best size mandrel!
I forgot to mention that I use various custom diam. mandrels in my LEE collet dies to control seating force. I use a metered press to monitor seating force and I just pick the best size mandrel!
I ordered a collet die for my 6.5x47. The price is 80 dollars. Sent bullet also. Only down side is 6 to 8 week wait. Just got notice it's on the way. Will let you know how it works. Cheers
Not by design, but as the collet is activated by the die body bottoming on the shell holder top, you could introduce spacers to effect an earlier activation.mikecr said:
I love the Lee Collet die. No lube required, incredibly straight necks, and consistent neck tension.
Just hate the "ribs" that are left behind by the gaps in the collet. Yes, one can knock them down by sizing most of the way in one stroke, lowering ram and rotating case about 45 degrees, then finishing the sizing process. Still annoying.
Now I just use the collet die when loading at the range on a small number of cases.
Just hate the "ribs" that are left behind by the gaps in the collet. Yes, one can knock them down by sizing most of the way in one stroke, lowering ram and rotating case about 45 degrees, then finishing the sizing process. Still annoying.
Now I just use the collet die when loading at the range on a small number of cases.
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
amlevin said:
If you are getting marks on the neck of your brass, you are doing-it-wrong.
You need to back the die out a bit. It should barely engage the die to cause the collet fingers to close on the neck/mandrel. It takes far less contact than you might think for the sizing to happen.Try setting your die up this way:
Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed .
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product , it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in it’s base .
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press .
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases .
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
eg. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker , that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .
If you still cant get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful poilishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel.
There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any draging effect . Normally you dont need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck . After a few cases it coats up the mandrel .
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.
I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilise the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed .
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product , it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in it’s base .
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press .
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases .
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
eg. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker , that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .
If you still cant get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful poilishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel.
There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any draging effect . Normally you dont need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck . After a few cases it coats up the mandrel .
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.
I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilise the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
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