Issues with CCI 450 Primers

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by BenPerfected, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Silver $$ Contributor

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    Now having a reoccurring issue with my CCI 450 primers. Two misfires today shooting 6 Dashers that were loaded last night. Tried to re-fire both rounds multiply times but they would not fire. When home, pulled both bullets from the misfires and both had a full powder charge of Varget. Only have had one other CCI 450 primer misfire. Tried to post some pictures be they must be too big of a file. Have 5000 450's left all lot # doesn't give you a lot of confidence in a tournament.
     
  2. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Gold $$ Contributor

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    Push the primers out and do the "hammer" test. Smack them and see if then go BANG!!
    That will tell in the primers are defective (I doubt it) or they wern't pressed in properly. NEVER had an issue with ANY CCI primers. Only shot maybe 5000 + so maybe havn't got to a bad one yet?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  3. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    Just had 3 CCI #200 not fire on the first pull of the trigger. 2 of the 3 went on the 2nd try. #3 never fired. I've never had a primer seating issue before, even with Wolf/Tula primers, but it does happen.

    Lloyd
     
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  4. Bob L.

    Bob L. Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have had numerous misfires with CCI 450 primers in my rifles chambered for 6BRX. Seating the primers deeper helped in my Barnard, but not much in my BAT Model B (I had 5 misfires during my match this past weekend). Federal 205M primers give reliable ignition, but are not as accurate. I plan to try CCI 400s and call BAT to see what can be done to use the larger 0.280 inch firing pin and spring. My Model B is an older one with a threaded bolt shroud vs. the newer bayonet.

    Frustrating to say the least.
     
  5. Tempest

    Tempest

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    Had a bunch CCI 450 here as well. Yes, makes you pucker at a match hoping you have enough rounds.
     
  6. savageshooter86

    savageshooter86 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Firing pin spring weak or not seated deep enough. Had same issue few months back.
     
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  7. ireload2

    ireload2

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    I shoot a lot of old military rifles. They always fire including an elderly GEW 88.
    In about 45 years of handloading I have had zero primers misfire. That includes a few in loaded rounds that went through a washing machine in my jeans. Don't blame the primers.
     
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  8. boltfluter

    boltfluter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Bob,
    Not sure, but the lack of firing pin drop in your Bat action may be the problem with the 450 primers. Federal has a much thinner cup than the 450. Just something that I have read about lately. Wheeler Accuracy may be able to help you out with this. Maybe Alex will chime in.

    Paul

    www.boltfluting.com
     
  9. kvd

    kvd Silver $$ Contributor

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    It's probably not the primers. If you have the Hornady Headspace set, check the cartridges that did not fire. My guess is that the cases in question may be several thousandths shorter than the cartridges that did fire without problems. For your peace of mind, you can make these primers detonate by loading the cases up again but seating the bullets way out - jamming them like you are fire forming. This will push the case back against the bolt face hard enough for the firing pin to get a good solid hit on the primer and not just dent it.

    Ken
     
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  10. Bob L.

    Bob L. Gold $$ Contributor

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    The firing pin protrusion has been set to specs, but maybe that is not quite enough. I may try setting itat the top of the band.
    It seems like the 450's are "right on the verge" of going off. The Fed primers do have a thinner cup as do the 400's. I still am going to try a match's worth of each, hopefully with calmer wind than has been the case lately. I have shot them both at 100 yds. and don't notice any difference in accuracy from the 450's, but it may show up at 600 (it actually already did with Feds, but I want to confirm). These days, winners in even the monthly for fun F Class matches are shooting 599's and 600's and the 599's getting rarer and rarer.
     
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  11. USMCDOC

    USMCDOC Silver $$ Contributor

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    I have some CCI 450s that fall into Lapua .223 brass like they had been greased with butter! So either the primers are smaller around than normal or the primer pockets on that lot of brass is too large, either way.. they are not working well together..
     
  12. jfk

    jfk

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    Had the same problem with one piece of Lapua brass in my 6br. CCI 450 is what I was using as well, never could figure it out, I ended up culling the piece of brass after many attempts at depriving and repriming that same case.

    After reading kvd's post though I think it may have been a headspace issue.
     
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  13. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Gold $$ Contributor

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    In that was case, pull the bullet out a bit to lengthen the OAL and the bullet stuffed into the lands. That will hold the case against the bolt head and when fired, blows the shoulder out to better fit the chamber.
     
  14. kvd

    kvd Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ashamed to say, but I'm speaking from experience here. Had only two rounds fire out of ten test rounds I had assembled in 6 PPC. All the BR-4 primers were dented and looked fine in terms of seating depth but when I got home and started pulling the rounds apart and measuring things I determined that I had pushed the shoulders back 7 to 8 thousandths from what a fired case was measuring. The powder was still in the cases so to validate what I was thinking I seated a bullet 0.040 into the lands to make sure the case would be pushed back against the bolt face and loaded up. Click, bang - lesson learned - do not get over zealous with the shoulder bump. Now I religiously measure every case I resize and tend to err on the side of to little rather than to much shoulder bump. I'd much rather deal with a little resistance to bolt closure than a dead round with to much headspace that can push forward in the chamber when the firing pin hits the primer.

    Rifle primers are one of the more reliable things humans make. They can sit for decades and still work. It is difficult to deactivate them if you try. So when I see a bad primer thread I offer up the advice to check headspace. If one is on the ragged edge of excessive headspace after resizing then it is possible that one or two rounds may be over the limit and not fire. Firing pin issues or an actual bad lot of primers would be a rarity compared to a reloader occasionally bumping the shoulder to much.

    My 2ยข worth.

    Ken
     
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  15. Laurie

    Laurie

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    Yes +1 on the last view. That and/or not seating the primer fully in the case-pocket. Not an issue with old military Mausers and the like (or for that modern automatic military weapons) that cope with almost every likely condition including substantial excess headspace, but modern precision rifles are often fussy.
     
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  16. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    I think what KVD and Laurie stated is right on the money. I do A LOT of Ackley cases. When you need a case to fill the chamber, I.E. making Ackley cases, making Dasher brass out of 6mmBR brass, and the like, there is one overriding "rule".. Whether you need a "false shoulder" or seating a bullet long, you do these things to keep the base of the case firmly against the boltface. This will cause the firing pin to strike the case hard enough with VERY limited or NO movement at all of the case in the chamber to 1.) hold it firmly in place, allowing the case to be fired; and 2.) forcing the case to fill the chamber. By forcing the case to fill the chamber, then with sizing, RESTRICTING the amount of case sizing (1-3 thousandths) (I personally like 2-3 thousandths) you limit case head stretch and guaranteeing that your cases WILL fire unless there is something else wrong, like a weak firing pin or an actual bad primer. TIP: when using the "jam method", instead of the false shoulder method, make sure you use a bushing with 3-4 thousandth of neck tension. This will hold the case firmly in place so it can be fired. If you use 1-2 thousandths of neck tension, you stand a reasonable chance that even though the bullet may be 30 thousandths in the lands, the firing pin striking the primer will sometimes simply push the case forward and the bullet will "soft seat" causing a misfire. Remember virgin brass is usually considerably shorter than the chamber! When fireforming you NEED to keep the base of the case firmly against the boltface!
     
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  17. Steve Ladino

    Steve Ladino

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    Extremely dangerous unless you are willing to gamble on your eyesight !
     
  18. Steve Ladino

    Steve Ladino

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    Had vertical with my SV action and after talking to BAT They sent me a new firing pin spring.....back to the 450's and the vertical is gone now.
     
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  19. DJSBRS

    DJSBRS Site $$ Sponsor

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    Too much headspace with resizing die.
     
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  20. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Gold $$ Contributor

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    You DO own shooting glasses don't you?? What do you do when you press your primers in??
    Your face is about 6" from the bolt when you pull the trigger isn't it?:rolleyes: Might consider taking up basket weaving. ;)
     
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