Is Lapua small primer brass really worth it?

Discussion in '6PPC, 6-6.5x47, 6XC, 6 Rem, 243' started by bullfrog, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. log

    log

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    I have a 260 I use 308 palma brass you can run it hotter with small primers without pressure sign the only trouble with it you need a small firing pin or they will crafter your primers
     
  2. AckleymanII

    AckleymanII Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have 600 rounds on 15 palma cases, anneal occasionally, rock on. CCI 450 and Rem 7 1/2.

    Node on a 31" X caliber barrel is 3200 with R#17. 3130 fps with H or imr 4350, and you should try 7 1/2's. This is my first 6 XC and it reminds me of a 6PPC with the tiny groups that it shoots.
     
  3. AckleymanII

    AckleymanII Gold $$ Contributor

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    Steve, what primer were you using when you has the hang fires?

    I experienced this in the 80's with a 22 Cheatah.
     
  4. Kurt Blasser

    Kurt Blasser Silver $$ Contributor

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    What happens to your loads when you switch from large primer lapua 308 to small primer palma brass? Do they change at all. Will I have to rework the loads?
     
  5. Grimstod

    Grimstod Web Designer for PremierAccuracy.com Gold $$ Contributor

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    As much as I love lapua's product for a 6 Creedmoor I would say no. Simple reason is that with this cartridge you will be burning slower powders and almost inevitably shooting heavy bullets. With a case this large and the combination of a slower power you may not get as good n ignition. Even lapua admits this. It barely works for the 308 Palma but that is because they are burning much faster powders.
     
  6. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    I had similar concerns as Grimstod when first working with Palma brass converted to 6.5 Creedmoor. With H4350 and a magnum primer I was able to achieve excellent results and adequate velocity but not quite the speeds achievable with the large primer brass. When I switched to Reloder 16, I could easily push a 6.5/140 at 2850+ but precision was still best in my gun at 2725 fps range. In the 6 Creedmoor ex 6.5 Lapua brass Reloder 16 will get 115 DTACS at 3100 fps but the best precision seems to be at just over 3000 and lower 2900 nodes. (all shot in a 26" barrel) I have only tried these two powders but I think if you explore your propellant options you can get the small primed cases working very well with great case life. Is it better than the large primer brass....I can't say better but just as good. I'll need to put 10 more cycles or so on the brass to determine.
     
  7. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

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    What would happen if a guy punched the small primer flash hole out, like 223 brass? I ran into issues shooting a dtac in new Lapua creed brass with a slower powder, a CCI 450 made it worse I think.
    A switch to RL16 and 110 sierra solves the headache, but not the issue at hand.
     
  8. VaRandy

    VaRandy Silver $$ Contributor

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    For starters you would have ragged edges much worse than the drilled holed from Lapua factory brass. Need to clean up both sides and you still have stressed brass there.
     
  9. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Saw some x47 brass punched accidently by universal decapper, looked decent. Lapua brass not drilled, but this more of a musing than a experiment that I'll embark upon.
     
  10. Catfur

    Catfur

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    Lapua does not drill their flash holes (except on .338 Lapua and some other large cases where the punch won't work as well).
     
  11. 6xcshooter

    6xcshooter

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    the 6xc is just fine with the large primer. just load it ,shoot it, be happy. ;)
     
  12. FJIM

    FJIM

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    well good question. I have 100 Lapua 6.5 creed small rifle primer brass. I have shot a lot of Norma 6XC brass over the last three years. I also made 6.5 creed brass some years ago from 308 palma and it was worth it in my opinion as I seen the difference in performance. Now that I have the Lapua 6.5 creed brass and no 6.5 creed anymore it would seem I should just run it threw my XC die and make small primer XC brass. So I did 20 cases..and I am not impressed I have had no performance gains over the Norma brass. Which I have always said the Norma brass is good and I feel this short test just proves how good it really is. Although this test was brief and only fired them twice I plan on testing them further but at this point the Norma XC brass is just that good or this Lapua 6.5 creed brass ain't what the 308 Palma brass is..A new 6.5 creed is in the works and I have been looking at trying some Peterson Cartridge co 6.5 creed brass.
    As I know the Hornady is not worth loading.lol...for me ,I know some who shoot it with put put loads very accurately and I have witnessed some 1" 500 yards 5 shot groups that make me shake my head at like 2,550 FPS...it does not work for me
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  13. VaRandy

    VaRandy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Wow this is news to me. I am old so is it possible that previously all Lapua WAS drilled?
     
  14. Catfur

    Catfur

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    No clue, but they put out a notice on their website a while back about it (I can't find it now).
     
  15. FJIM

    FJIM

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    well my 308 Lapua Palma brass made into 6.5 creed using RL17 CCI 450's and a 140 HVLD I was able to push it to 2,950 FPS from a 24" barrel around 1/2 moa. At that time only brass was Hornady and I could only get 2,800 any more and I would loose the primer pocket. I had fired the lapua palma's six times and the pockets were still tight. I still have them cases.To me the performance gain with good accuracy for the purpose I used it for which was hunting was worth it.
    So far I have no gains with the 6.5 creed SRP formed to 6XC over the Norma. The Norma XC brass is quite good.
    I push a 105 HVLD with a CCI BR2 and 40.5 GR RL17 in the Norma out of a 26" XC at 3,150 FPS Brass holds up well.
    I can drive it to 3,200 FPS but brass life is short 2-4 firings. I have recently pushed the 103 ELD-X's to 3,250 FPS and I could use that load but accuracy is poor not so poor it can't work but not XC like...I shoot them at 3,180 I have pushed the 115 HVLD's to 3,150 using RL26 and they shoot very well but the RL26 was too temp sensitive with that load. Norma brass. So I see no gain from 6.5 creed SRP brass in 6XC. I am sure it has to be better than Hornady 6.5 creed but I don't have a 6.5 creed right now so I don't know that I could push the kind of loads I did on the reformed Palma's. But hope I could.
    Now I shot some factory Hornady superperformance 129 IB they claimed 2,950 FPS and that is what they were doing.
    The factory 140's that were said to be 2,810 were like 2,650.

    I never had a problem with the small rifle primers I used CCI 450 and shot them 10 below zero and they shot the same. No issues.. My take on the small primers is more brass in the head kind of like a magnum tougher so you can run a hotter load and the brass hold up and primer pockets stay tight. I know that was not the purpose of the palma brass but that is how it works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  16. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    My evidence suggests you can.
    I have shot both 6.5 Creedmoor ex Palma and factory Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor cases. The performance is the same to me except the converts shot best after the second firing cycle where the factory Creedmoor cases stabilized after one firing.
     
  17. FJIM

    FJIM

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    Thanks That is why I have 100 6.5 creed Lapua cases and I don't have a 6.5 creed right now because I know just how wicked that little cartridge is with good brass. I said it would never happen never thought Lapua would make brass for it and now that they do I am working on getting another 6.5 creed.
     
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  18. 6xcshooter

    6xcshooter

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    39gr h4350 with any bullet of 105 gr to 108 gr. Get 3000 to 3050 fps in 26 and 28 inch barrels. 42.5 gr h4831sc works excellent in 1 of my 6xc with 105 gr bullets.
     
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