Induction annealer built around Annie

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by powderbrake, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Lapua40X

    Lapua40X California Hunter Education Instructor Silver $$ Contributor

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    Very nicely done. I'm curious about your selection of the 12vdc 95cfm cooling fan. You have 115v input to the system, and a 150cfm muffin fan running on that power should draw somewhere around 1 amp so you wouldn't have to consider special switching or wire gauge restrictions and it would improve air flow dramatically. Is there a reason why the larger fan wasn't chosen?
     
  2. powderbrake

    powderbrake Gold $$ Contributor

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    Having followed the Gina-Erik thread, I needed a 12vdc power supply for the timer power and the pump motor, so I chose the 12vdc fans. The primary choice on the fan was the sound (noise) level of 41 dbA, and the highest flow volume(99 cfm), and the lowest power level (3 watts). I really didn't want a loud unit, just to move the air over the tank, and to provide some flow for the 12vdc supply and the timer, which are convection cooled units themselves.

    The Annie has an internal fan, and doesn't need extra airflow, but looking at the Annie case design with it's longitudinal fins, I felt that any airflow I could give it would help the Annie temperature and it's life. I just mounted the fan/tank/Annie in a flow path that would hit all of them, and flowing in the direction of Annie's internal fan.

    Later when I added the radiator, I just used the same fan, as I still had adequate current capacity in the 12vdc power supply. So basically I have all the air flow I need, and it is fairly quiet.
     
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  3. normmatzen

    normmatzen Silver $$ Contributor

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    I,too, am a retired analog IC Design engineer. So, I started designing my own annealer. After frying a few power MOS transistors, I found building stuff wasn't so much fun anymore, even with a professional lab in my garage from when I consulted.
    So, I became an early adopter of the ANNIE!

    I have had it almost since Fluxeon started building them. I've had plenty of time to experiment with different coils and wire types and settled for the water cooled non flux concentrater. I and my bottles of 750 Tempelac found ideal times for each of my cases I shoot.

    Then, I wanted a fixture to hold the cases in a consistent position. I saw all the solenoid dropping set-ups and decided to go the easy way.

    I bought a piece of 1/2" white plastic sheet that was 6" X 12" on ebay and carefully cut half round slots on the two sides to clear and align to the rubber feet on my Annie. The Annie sits on the back of the 12" side so the coil sits over the front of the assembly. I also bought some 0.2" dia glass rods (yup! on ebay) and drilled a 3/8" inch deep 0.2" dia or so hole under and concentric with the coil. Then, I measured carefully and made a glass rod just long enough so when I drop a case over it, the center of the neck is right in the middle of the coil. The one sticking out of the coil is the one for 6BRX cases and the short one laying on the plastic is for 284 WIN cases. The longer piece is a spare ready to be cut for 7X57 or 30-06 or maybe K31 cases. I measure them carefully and scribe a line with a small model file and snap the piece off. Then I fire smooth the end with a propane torch and I'm ready to go. Only problem in dropping cases on pointed down is that 6BR and 6brx are not heavy enough to stay down! I have to hold the primer end down while it anneals as
    the inductive force wants to center the case in the field and that doesn't agree with the part of the case I want to anneal!

    My pump is a $2 ebay aquarium pump and today after annealing 100 6BRX cases, the 1 quart of water in the reservoir barely got warm to the touch. Annie base.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  4. powderbrake

    powderbrake Gold $$ Contributor

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    Simple, elegant solution, no fan needed.
     
  5. Art Dirindin

    Art Dirindin

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    Yep, took one look at that incredible contraption and the complexity of the build and the time and cost involved and said to myself "That man MUST be retired". Superb work and you are the RARE person who has my envy.
     
  6. Gina1

    Gina1

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    ......."I could be completely wrong with my entire take on the situation and maybe the "early" designs and definitions and descriptions are NOT "fake" and it really IS possible for those early "demonstrator" units to do what they at least APPEAR (if the "slight of hand" involved in dropping already annealed cases into them or dropping un-annealed "cold" cases into a container of water that's not shown clearly or long enough for the viewer to see the cases in it aren't discolored unless you go back and watch/pause the video because you're "skeptical" of the product from the get-go as I was based on that copper coil thing) to do in SEVERAL "demonstration" videos that are very short in run-time, feature little or no "narration" and don't give the "big picture" OR the "promised" or at least implied technical information to be able to build a similar machine".....

    YES... you are wrong !!

    First of all you do not understand how induction annealing actually works and why it works with non-ferrous brass. I'm not going to go into the theory of it all, you can find that on the internet, and I just don't have time to explain it to you. Until you see the GinaErick annealer in use, first hand, there would be no convincing you it actually works. (banging my head on a cement wall)

    I published the instructions for the GinaErick (parts list and all) because it is a really good induction annealer that does a good, consistent job of annealing case brass. I'm not trying to sell any thing to anybody. 100's of these units have been built so far, some in other countries around the world. They work, they do the job.

    Since you already saw http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/induction-brass-annealer-redux.3908353/ What did you not understand ?

    Gina
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  7. dskogman

    dskogman Gold $$ Contributor

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    “I could be completely wrong with my entire take on the situation and maybe the "early" designs and definitions and descriptions are NOT "fake" and it really IS possible for thoseearly "demonstrator" units to do what they atleast APPEAR (if the "slight of hand" involved...”

    The physics involved are well known and certainly not fake news. Google zero voltage switching (ZVS) circuits for more info. This is a pretty good intro.

    I’ve built one and they work well.
     
  8. powderbrake

    powderbrake Gold $$ Contributor

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    MEYETGOBANG's misunderstanding is in assuming the induction annealers are DC devices, actually they are actually very high frequency AC devices.

    Perhaps a more simple explanation of the induction effects is a transformer. In a normal transformer ac voltage is applied to one set of windings and the alternating flux is transferred to the other winding which generates a voltage proportional to the ratio of the number of turns in the two windings. The current is also proportional.

    In the induction annealer, the primary is the multiple turns in the induction coil, and the secondary is the ONE turn of brass in the neck of the cartridge case. This means that the current in the brass case is VERY high, and causes the case to heat up. At these very high frequencies there are other "skin effects" that cause heating as well.

    So basically it's a transformer with a single turn secondary.
     
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  9. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    OMG, That’s a very simple solution @normmatzen. The solenoid case droppers on the souped-up models are way cool but this knocks it out of the park for simplicity. Does it make any difference if the cases wobble a little when you are annealing something a bit larger? Besides the 5 mm stirring rod you are using, I found glass tubes in many other sizes on EBay. If it matters at all, I may buy a few rods or tubes in 5, 6, 7, and 8 mm OD each, and then drill a shallow 7mm and a deeper 5 mm hole one side of the nylon board, then flip and drill 8mm and deeper 6 mm on the other side. That way I can mount all 4 tube sizes on one board using just the two half-circle cutouts you mentioned. Just have to be careful about the sharp ends on those tubes. Then the cases will center up good for me from .224” up to .338” calibers, and still only one nylon board needed. A 4” cleaning jag box will make a nice holder for the glass tubes. Pieces cut from nylon cutting boards make great non-marring vise jaw pads too by the way. I like the “hook it to the water line” answer from another post in this thread - my station will be right next to my utility sink in my garage so that’s easy for me. I wonder if the fan on Annie would blow some extra air from underneath if you cut out the middle of the nylon board, between the half circles? Annie’s probably not getting very hot anyway. I just need to throw a dress over her to keep her dry when I’m using the sink for other purposes. Thanks to you and @maconusmile for the great ideas.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  10. normmatzen

    normmatzen Silver $$ Contributor

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    What I have found is that this coil (water cooled, no core) with the cases hung on the top of a glass rod, the cases center themselves in the magnetic field. The only problem is that the 6BR based cases are not heavy enough to stay down so I hold them down with my finger for the couple seconds it takes to anneal them. Still, I don't believe that is as important as it appears as the way inductive heating works, an induced current is generated in the case neck from the work coil with the case being a shorted secondary turn.
    It works out fine in the end!
     
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  11. rwj

    rwj Silver $$ Contributor

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    For those that have recently bought an Annie from Fluxeon, did you have to pay California sales tax even if you didn’t live there? I’ve not yet contacted them directly, but when I tried to place an order via their web site, CA sales tax was added.
     
  12. 6ShotsOr5?

    6ShotsOr5? Gold $$ Contributor

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    Dakota Mike, what is the black electrical tape on the corner of the Annie for? Also, did you build your feeder yet?
     
  13. HillBilly98

    HillBilly98

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    That is awesome
     

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