Induction Annealer - Almost Done!!!

[itchyTF]

After more than 3 years I'm nearly there. Lost access to a mill & lathe which brought the project to a screeching halt. I had gotten impatient and wanted to see it done. A gunsmith friend told me about a local machinist who might be able to help. He was very generous in that he ended up charging significantly less than his normal rate.

I still have to get the water cooling system put together. Got all the parts except motor mounting bracket and I want to experiment controlling motor speed. Have a home designed PWM speed control that I need to spend some time with.

I'll try to get a video on youtube when I'm done.

I missed the boat when everybody and their brother was into the annealer kick a year or so ago, but I didn't want to go the open flame route. The advantages of this method (as I see it) are -

Fast - a .223 case takes about 1.1 seconds
Fine resolution - can adjust "burn" time to within .01 seconds
Easy to set up - adjust X, Y and height (if needed) and set time from record book (from previous experimentation)
Can use Tempilaq on the outside of the case because there is no flame

Disadvantage - probably will need water cooling if doing a lot of cases

Just drop the case in the top of the coil, a optical sensor "sees" the case at the bottom and turns the heater on for the set time then a solenoid opens a trap door and the case falls out the bottom.

Sorry for the blurry shot

A friend made these mandrels on his Haas. Makes it a lot easier to wind the work coil. Different coil diameter for different case families.

 

[joshb]

That's a really nice project. Are you going to market them?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

That's pretty cool. I think a good induction annealing system will command a lot of demand, whenever one is put out there.

 

[amlevin]

Looks good. Now just mate your machine with a Case Feeder like the Dillon. Just make another "feed gate" like the one at the bottom of the heating unit.

The idea of "Flameless" is great on just about every level.

 

[itchyTF]

joshb - I'd love to but I'd like to redesign some of the electronics & PC board to reduce some of the construction time. As it stands it would be pricey.

amlevin - My original concept was to have a case feeder but that increased the complexity (time & cost) so I canned that. My control board has another input channel (for another sensor) and 2 more outputs for solenoids or such. They are just not being used.
Not sure how the Dillon case feeder works. Is a case ready all the time? If it's always providing a case then some sort of indexing would be needed. If the Dillon were to drop a case into a "holder" as shown above, when its trap door opened the Dillon might have another one right behind it which would need to be held in position until the trap door closed.

 

[jlow]

If you considering building and marketing this thing, I would suggest not considering a case feeder at this point due to the significant added complexity.

With a Benchsource annealer running at the customary 3-4 seconds per case, there is no burden running a couple hundred cases. If yours can do the same thing around 1 second per case with the same accuracy/precision, then IMHO any case feeder would be a total waste of effort for 90% or more of the users which would be your main market. For that 5-10% who does it for a living, you can consider making an add on for them but frankly the effort vs. return most likely would not make economic sense for you.

 

[Steve Blair]

Disadvantage - probably will need water cooling if doing a lot of cases

[br]
Not "probably" and it won't take many to ruin the coil. Research commercial induction and ask yourself why they all have cooling systems. This is a very well explored industrial process and sound engineering is required to make the systems last.

 

[Lapua40X]

Got some old vacuum tubes?
http://www.tradeofic.com/Circuit/8940-CLOSED_LOOP_REGULATOR_FOR_INDUCTION_HEATER.html

 

[itchyTF]

Lapua -

A little dated? 1959 - I think I'll pass.

 

[1066]

Here's a smart one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGfGV8xrfak

 

[TC260]

This guy used to frequent the boards here some years back. Very knowledgeable about the science behind annealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny0a72_AX0E

 

[trpcboy]

itchyTF
You can use distilled water for cooling on your coil.
john
Mims, Fl.

 

[zipollini]

Here's a smart one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGfGV8xrfak

Oh hell yes !!!!!!!!! Why oh why haven't we seen this on the market ? Cost maybe. Sign me up.

 

[Lapua40X]

Lapua -

A little dated? 1959 - I think I'll pass.

Yeah. Didn't think I'd find any takers on that one. :
But I cut my teeth on vacuum tube electronics and I still get a rush when I play with them. Couldn't resist the temptation to share a little nostalgia.

 

[markm87]

Fast - a .223 case takes about 1.1 seconds

I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I've read a little here and there and watched a few videos...

Isn't annealing a function of time AND Temp? I watched a guy using a rigged up induction thingy on youtube, and it just looked like he was getting the necks Too hot, Too fast. If I remember right, he had those things glowing red in about 1 sec.

 

[itchyTF]

According to what I've read if the brass gets to any degree of red or orange it is too hot. It looks like according to Ken Light's write-up a target temp is in the 750 to 800 deg range for "a few seconds". I have the 450 and 750 degree Tempilaq but I think I'll get the 800 as well. I'll try to shoot for a 750 melt but not the 800.

He says something in his write-up that doesn't make sense to me -

A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft. Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done -- it will be too soft.

A couple of hundred degrees below 950 is 750 which is supposed to be OK. ???

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have found the right temp to be when the neck just starts to turn a dark orange. 750 tempilaq is not hot enough imo.

 

[Steve Blair]

Although it could have been worded better; I think Ken meant that, if it reaches 950°F, even though the heating is stopped at a lower temperature, the damage is already done. Ken has a pretty good understanding of thermodynamics and his machine design reflects that. [br]
I also agree with zfastmalibu. I set up in full darkness and adjust until the neck and shoulder just turn dark reddish-orange, not glowing. As long the ambient light is controlled, it is a reliable method. This has been verified with Tempilaq.

 

[jsthntn247]

Although it could have been worded better; I think Ken meant that, if it reaches 950°F, even though the heating is stopped at a lower temperature, the damage is already done. Ken has a pretty good understanding of thermodynamics and his machine design reflects that. [br]
I also agree with zfastmalibu. I set up in full darkness and adjust until the neck and shoulder just turn dark reddish-orange, not glowing. As long the ambient light is controlled, it is a reliable method. This has been verified with Tempilaq.

Could somebody set up and video their annealing process that knows what they are doing? I have heard many times about the neck glowing orange and have never been able to see this myself. I've put 750 tempilaq in the neck and it seems to melt about the same time the blue flame turns to orange but the necks are not orange. I always have problems with consistent neck tension. Maybe I'm not annealing long enough after seeing that yall's necks glow orange but I don't want to waste 100 lapua cases to try. All the video's on youtube on annealing seem to be made by folks who I'm not sure know the correct way to point the muzzle.

 

[CatShooter]

Fast - a .223 case takes about 1.1 seconds

I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I've read a little here and there and watched a few videos...

Isn't annealing a function of time AND Temp? I watched a guy using a rigged up induction thingy on youtube, and it just looked like he was getting the necks Too hot, Too fast. If I remember right, he had those things glowing red in about 1 sec.

Just what (and why) is, "... getting the necks Too hot, Too fast"??

Do you think that cases annealed at the factory are slowly simmered for 10 seconds - the companies would be out of business if they took that long.

I wish I could get my cases up to temp in 1 or 2 seconds.

When it comes to annealing cases, we use what is available at the local hardware store - that does NOT make it "state of the art" or the best way to do it.