I'm soliciting some sage advice on my barrel selection

Discussion in 'Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing' started by Paddyd, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Paddyd

    Paddyd

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Messages:
    162
    Well I have this Savage 12 LRPV currently in 204Ruger, that due to the limited selection of bullets available I have decided to rebarrel in 223 Rem. I need some advice on what specs to use. I will probably not shoot anything over 80 gr in weight so I figure a 1 in 8 twist should work fine. Since this won't be used much over 300 yds I also figure a 26" bbl should be long enough, but I'm conflicted as to the type of rifling and # of lands and grooves.. Can you guys in the know please tell me the merits of 5R vs conventional, whether it matters and what's up with 3 groove vs 4 or 6?
    As always Thanks much
     
    off target likes this.
  2. swadiver

    swadiver Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Messages:
    612
    I have two Bartlein 5R, 1 in 7.7 twist 28 inch, .223 barrels chambered by Greg at Southern Precision Rifles. they are on Savage Actions, one a Target action and one a standard Model 10 action. both are tack drivers with 73 gr and 80.5 gr Bergers

    all 5 @ 100 yds. the bottom pic is 80.5 bergers
    DSC06678-2.jpg DSC06713.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    300_whisper and LA50SHOOTER like this.
  3. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4,314
    My 2ยข
    Chevys, Fords, Dodges, Toyotas, etc. Pick a Bartlein, Brux, Kreiger, Shilen, Lilja, Rock Creek, etc., 3,4,5,6 groove button or cut rifled, you can get a good one or a dud. 5R cleans easier. I don't believe anything over 24" in a .223 is going to do much in the way of accuracy or velocity. For 80s, I'd go with something faster than an 8 unless you plan on also shooting 50 to 55s. Bottom line? Don't overthink a .223.
     
    300_whisper and Bully like this.
  4. Stan Taylor

    Stan Taylor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    273
    Well I use Douglas barrels myself in a 7 or 8 twists I have good luck with them.PS quick turn around.
     
  5. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    3,127
    Now, I'll just offer "my" advice on twist. I wanted a .223 to specifically shoot the 80 Berger. I checked thier "new, revised" calculator and it said 7.5. Even my gunsmith said 8 would do it, but he admitted he was using the old chart that was hanging on his wall.
    I'll admit that it's been a while and my memory may not be so good.;)
     
  6. old_dood

    old_dood Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    get a 7 or 7.5. the hybrid or secant ogives result in longer bullets thus requiring a faster twist. The 75g Hornady ELD requires a faster twist that the 80 SMK and, according to the Berger calculator, an 8 twist is just over recommended for the 80SMK.
     
  7. Bully

    Bully Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    308
    I am barreling a 223 with a 7twist to shoot 80's and 82's comfortably. I can go up a bit as well. I want the flexibility with the heavier bullets as I'm hoping to shoot FT/R several times this summer.
    As to the "Groove Thing" I agree with what has been mentioned, read up a bit and go with what sounds good to you. Lots of matches have been won with pretty much everything out there. The amount of grooves is really a personal preference. Good luck in your search.
     
    off target and hogpatrol like this.
  8. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    851
    My CBI 8 twist chambered in 223 Rem Match shoots the 80.5 Berger FB well enough to set a Fclass record. A number of guys I compete with have as well. Get one and screw it on yourself.
     
    Dgd6mm and hogpatrol like this.
  9. Paddyd

    Paddyd

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Messages:
    162
    I see your point and maybe a 7 twist is better than the 8 for the long heavy bullets. What's the poop on the faster twist with the lighter bullets like the 52 and 55 gr? Will it spin them too fast? My M70 1-9 twist shoots 55 and the 68 Hornady's about perfect. Will a 7 twist over stabilize the short bullets?
     
  10. old_dood

    old_dood Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    a friend had problems with some lighter bullets in his 7 twist. sorry I can't be more specific. As long as you're limiting yourself to 80g bullets, go with an 8 twist provided you stick with tangent ogive such as 80SMK or Berger 80.5g. those should be right on the cusp of comfortable stabitlity according to the Berger calculator. You should be able to shoot lighter bullets then. My LRPV, with a Pacnor 8 twist chambered in 223ai, shot the 80SMK very well. BTW, as long as you're rebarreling, consider going 223ai if you don't already have the 223 dies. A word of caution though if you go the 223 Ackley route. I believe most barrel makers reamers will give a chamber with a freebore set up for lighter bullets. If you could get hold of some used fireformed cases you should provide them with dummy rounds that have some 80 grainers loaded as you like. With my first Ackley barrel (Pacnor) I didn't and had to borrow a throating reamer to lengthen the freebore. When I ordered my second barrel (Shilen), I provided dummy rounds and it came to me perfect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  11. Paddyd

    Paddyd

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Messages:
    162
    You touch on a critical issue I have found with the 223 and that is trying to get bullets to reach further in the long throats and maintaining enough bullet in the neck. Might not be an issue with long bullets, but then going back to a 55 gr spitzer type in order to keep enough bullet seated in the neck you end up with very long jumps. I wish they had made the 223 with longer necks when they designed the cartridge and it would be the near perfect .22.
    Have you noticed any significant case life longevity with the AI? What about accuracy? significantly better in the small 223 case or about the same. Even if all else remained equal, if using high dollar brass and getting 4 or 5 more loadings out of them might justify buying another set of dies. I'm not very familiar with the AI, but I guess I need to educate myself on it.
     
  12. Paddyd

    Paddyd

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Messages:
    162
    I've never heard of the 223Rem Match before.. What is it? How is it different than the standard 223 Rem?
     
  13. old_dood

    old_dood Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    there's no free lunch. Shoot 80's knowing that the lowest you can go is maybe 60-65. I can tell you that I didn't have any problem with the 69SMK once the throat was set up for the 80's. Perhaps the new Valkyrie might be something to consider as something with a longer neck. Case life with the Ackley was excellent. When I got the first barrel I bought 200 Lapua and never replaced any with over 4000 down the barrel. Almost never had to trim either. with a 20 to 30 thou jump, 25.5 Varget or 26 CFE I could usually get .5MOA at 200 yds which is my ranges limit. The second barrel is just as good with the same loads.
     
    joshb and Dgd6mm like this.
  14. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    851
    Longer freebore (.090"), which facilitates running the longer 80gr bullets. It is a standard available on the Criterion barrel.
     
  15. old_dood

    old_dood Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    pm sent.
     

Share This Page