How to train: advise me on how to get better, faster

[Evan]

Hi Everyone! I recently acknowledged to myself that I had pushed my grandpa's Mauser hunting rifles to the edge of their capabilities. The one I have consistently shot since a teenager, a german 98 chambered in 300 Savage with beautiful double set triggers, ignited my passion for shooting long range. It was a 0.5MOA rifle at 100yards, but always seemed to open up disproportionately as I went out to greater ranges. For example, at 1000yards, it would struggle to keep inside 2 MOA. This spring, after my last fervent bout of attempting to shoot it out at long range and getting a lot of inconsistency, I set a budget for a new rifle. I got a RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor and after a few months of load development and getting to know the rifle, I've come to a point where I don't know how to purposefully train and practice with the rifle to get better. Here's my breakdown:

My equipment:

• RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor, seemingly capable of consistent 0.4 MOA performance with me behind it
• 147 ELD-M rocking along at 2750, SD ~8 and ES ~14,
  
• Vortex HD Razor 4.5-27 with EBR-2C reticle (I use this for ranging, and double check with a GPS app when I walk to the target)
• Harris 6-9 Bipod
• rear bag
  
• shoot from a bench

My goals:

• increase my precision (hitting the target, in the middle, on the first shot)
• increase my accuracy (as conditions change after the first shot, correcting to keep the grouping small)

I shoot at the hot, windy, exposed Pawnee Grasslands in north-eastern Colorado. I can stretch out to beyond 1 mile in my favorite spot. This is a 75 mile drive 1 way, but is pretty easy going. I've been doing it every weekend for a while now.

What my current shooting regime looks like:

• Walk 3 or 4 cardboard targets out to different distances, keeping track of distance with GPS app. I used to go way out but have recently kept to shooting targets inside of 500 yards to shorten the travel time out to the targets to check groups and put up new paper (not allowed to drive, must walk). Each target has a little sprinkler flag from Lowes on top for watching wind.
  
• I sit down and range each target with my scope and compare to the distance I got with the GPS app. I'm often within ~5%. As I type this I realize I should analyze each time if this error is larger than my intended target size at the given range, i.e. I'm at 825 yards, and my error is 15 yards, that would be 0.5MOA of error just in elevation.
  
• Fire a 5-shot group onto each target using my dope card to click elevation and hold for wind.
• Walk out, take a picture of the group, use RangeBuddy app to get a group size and distance from the target dot. I take notes in my range notebook when I get back to the bench and try to correct my dope for the next set.
• Repeat. I tend to shoot 50-70 rounds per outing before I'm no longer calm behind the gun and decide to pack up and head home.

I've attached three groups that are pretty common right now for me at 110, 325, and 825 yards to demonstrate where I'm at. Wind is a constantly changing variable where I shoot, as can be seen in the difference between the three groups at 825. The first group I was able to call the wind very well indeed because it was pretty consistent the whole way out. I'm close to the dot, and my dispersion is relatively small. The next 2 groups out there were not as good. I didn't call the average wind or correct during the group nearly as well. Granted, the wind more than doubled and started gusting on top of that variably along the range (the flag at 300 was not whipping nearly as hard as the one at the target).



Sorry for the book I wrote above and I really appreciate any advice. I feel like I'm not improving much anymore. Each range session is yielding results much the same as the one before and I want to make sure that I'm not missing training or practice techniques that will allow me to advance faster.

 

[K22]

At those distances wind, mirage, and shooter error are greatly magnified. I don't shoot any where near those distances but I can offer some tips on training since I trained troops to shoot in the Army and shot competitive pistol (bulls eye) for 30 years. Most of this you probably already know but I'll offer anyway.

1. If you haven't read or been instructed into the fundamentals of precise shooting do so.

2. Keep a log of every shot. Develop a mentality that ever shot counts, no excuses. Consistency is the key here, same hold, same trigger engagement, same follow through, etc.

3. Call your shots and try to learn from each shot.

4. Quality practice is more valuable that trying to shoot too many rounds at one range session. Get in as many ranges sessions as possible but don't shoot until you're fatigued and get sloppy and develop bad habits. For me, that many rounds that you fire is too much for one per range session. It's hard to maintain concentration, focus and adherence to fundamentals over than many rounds per range session.

5. I have a set number of rounds I shoot each ranges session. I tried to focus on each shoot. I scored each shoot to give me some basis to judge improvement. My current game is hunting (varmint) so it's different than yours but the principles apply.

6. Long range shooting, at the distances you're talking about requires special skills and equipment. Engage someone who is good at it and learn from them. Learn how to read the wind and compensate for mirage.

7. Understand that shooting is an athletic endeavor and subject to your bio-rhythm changes, i.e. some days you're going to be in the zone and some days not.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Accuracy at longer distances would only be proportionate in a vacuum. A 1moa rifle at 100yds could be a 1/2moa at 1000 if you could make sure the wind is in your favor. A kestrel at your bench is not the answer. It sounds like you have the fundamentals down good its the external fine stuff you havent learned yet and you will. Remember practice doesnt make perfect- perfect practice makes perfect. If you shoot for 20yrs not reading the wind you havent learned a single thing about the wind and youve been in a rut. Another thing that will help is getting an actual rest setup and ditch the bipod. Good luck it sounds like youre doing great- keep it up!!

 

[Evan]

1. No formal training. My uncle taught me. He was really into long range shooting for hunting.

2. I keep track of every 5-shot string, and note anomalies in each string (poor wind call, bad form on the trigger, etc.) I haven't really tracked every individual shot.

3. This was part of my reason to move targets in closer. I have no one spotting me. On good days, early in the morning, I can resolve my shots at 600. 300 or so is about as far as I can go and still see my shots as the day warms up. I usually call it a day no later than 11 because the mirage and heat are too much.

4 and 5. Agreed. When I can no longer calm myself to the point of seeing my pulse in the movement of the crosshair, I pack it up. I say 50-70rnds, but often I cut it off at 50 regardless. 70 happened on 2 occasions when I really felt I had a strong rhythm and was getting great results. I like this RPR because it is much less punishing to shoot. I would start to feel assaulted by the hunting rifles after 20 or so rounds and have to stop. Recoil and muzzle flip are just so much less; it's like my 22-250 but with much longer reach.

6. Agreed. I'm mostly self taught at this point. My uncle was from a different time and didn't have or rely upon the equipment available to us today. I'm certain I could find folks to help me out at the Colorado Rifle Club. I considered joining a while ago but it is about 15 miles further and I have to drive through Denver to get there. I decided free and closer was better but perhaps I need to revisit that. If there are folks on this board that live in northern colorado and would like to meet up; I'd love to do that.

7. This is one of my favorite parts of long range shooting! The inward focus: concentrating and focusing on my body's rhythm; the gun and the results on the target are just an external reflection of how well I am understanding and working with my body's rhythm on that day. It was part of what my uncle taught me and it is a large part of what I love and pursue while shooting.

 

[tvaught]

1. Carefully select a Mentor that has accomplished all of your goals and is currently shooting within those disciplines.

2. Listen to the Mentor. Ask questions when you can't accomplish what he may have asked of you. Don't ask the why's or what fors yet.

3. Have your rifle "accurized" up to and including a custom barrel when funds allow.

4. Sign up for training within your discipline. The instruction may seem expensive, but in perspective of the "system" cost of a barrel (2k bullets, 16# of powder, 2k of primers, 200 pieces of brass, the barrel, the barrel thread/chamber/install/coating), the instruction is money well spent. Find a class that's hard to get into. Jim See, Rifles Only, K&M, etc

5. Schedule yourself for competition. The competitive pressure, association, and experience will speed up your learning. Don't worry about your place in the stack, that will sort itself out over time, if winning the match/comp becomes the goal.

I'll stop there. That's my top 5 for ya

Select a qualified/current Mentor
Listen to the Mentor
Sort out your rifle
Sign up for training
Sign up for competitions

 

[Evan]

Thanks Dusty! My draw to the bipod has always been that it is pretty flexible and doesn't tie me to the bench. I sometimes roll out a pad and shoot prone, if I don't feel like lugging my bench out there. I just understand and accept that it isn't the same stability as a full tripod style rest and that it will sacrifice some potential accuracy, but I like that I'm using a system that can work out in the field too.

TUFFLUCK, I'm fairly isolated right now so I think I need to find my local community of shooters so that I can find a mentor. A lot of signs point to me joining and attending events at the CRC...

I'm planning to have this rifle worked over (or maybe a custom built) but plan to shoot with the RPR for now since the raw accuracy seems to be WELL ahead of my wind and distance skills as seen by the above groups. Conditions got dicey and the groups expanded rapidly and moved off center disproportionately to the cartridge ballistics or rifle's accuracy.

 

[Evan]

My playground with targets at 600 and 1400 yards circled:

I can go out to 2000 or more before I get to the top of that hill. Apart from the exposure, wind, and not being able to drive down the 2-track, it's a really nice spot. Far enough out in the middle of nowhere that I rarely see other people.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks Dusty! My draw to the bipod has always been that it is pretty flexible and doesn't tie me to the bench. I sometimes roll out a pad and shoot prone, if I don't feel like lugging my bench out there. I just understand and accept that it isn't the same stability as a full tripod style rest and that it will sacrifice some potential accuracy, but I like that I'm using a system that can work out in the field too.

TUFFLUCK, I'm fairly isolated right now so I think I need to find my local community of shooters so that I can find a mentor. A lot of signs point to me joining and attending events at the CRC...

I'm planning to have this rifle worked over (or maybe a custom built) but plan to shoot with the RPR for now since the raw accuracy seems to be WELL ahead of my wind and distance skills as seen by the above groups. Conditions got dicey and the groups expanded rapidly and moved off center disproportionately to the cartridge ballistics or rifle's accuracy.

If you like a bipod then ditch the harris and get an atlas. Being “flexible” is the main issue with a harris.

 

[CharlieNC]

Without more information its difficult to even estimate whether the main area for improvement lies with the shooter or the gear. But two major observations are apparant. The degree of wind you face presents a major challenge, and it sounds like a flag close to the shooting position would help your judgement since that location has a major influence. Welcome to the large club of us who are trying to learn how to better deal with it.

Secondly you did not state how you carried out load development. For example if you shot 100yd groups vs ladder/ocw test at longer distance to define a node, then you have left a lot of potential accuracy on the table. With sd=8 you will actually easily experience +/-16 = 32, and unless the load is within a node will cause significant vertical.

 

[Erud]

Find some type of competitive shooting sport to get into. You’ll learn a lot more a lot faster competing against really good shooters than you will ever learn by yourself in the woods.

 

[Beau]

If you can shoot a 1/2" group at 100, your fundamentals are pretty good.

What you need to work on now is your wind reading. To do that you will need instant feedback on every shot so that you can correlate impact to condition observations.

How are you going to do that? That's the tricky part. Maybe the answer is steel targets, maybe a target camera or some sort of e-target.

 

[john pruitt]

buy yourself a good set of wind flags and learn how to use them there is a lot of good info on this site

 

[Liven The Dream]

I have shot long range NRA Palma and 1000 yard for years.
1st. Having the best equipment won't make you a Winner.

There are a couple Books that may Help ? Coming in June — Second Edition of Nancy Tompkins Rifle Book and Jim Owens Reading the Wind.
The thing I think that would be your biggest help. Go to one of the Ranges in your area ( there are a few) that have Palma F/TR Matches.
Enter a few matches look listen and learn. If you can shoot a X on your first or second sighting shot at 8,9or 1000 you have gotten to your goal.
Then watching the wind changes and keeping your shots centered is the game.

I have seen people with your rifle and factory Ammo do a good job at these Matches.
There are few Shooters that can stay in the middle of the target at all times........Perfect Scores do get shot from time to time by the best Indians on the line.

It's a Great Game with Great People I hope you become one ?

 

[JaoeyP]

I think the Harris bipods can work well, but you have to load them. You need some sort of stop for the feet to push up against so you can lean into it a bit. On the ground usually the rubber feet will catch or a lot of shooting mats have a cloth strip they can be loaded against. For a bench you can try a block clamped on or some use a strap of some sort.

 

[steve123]

I'd find another place to shoot because that's a lot of wasted time and effort walking out to the targets!!!

I'd also start using steel for the farther distances, it's flat out more fun and you get that instant feed back. Backpack with 1/4" AR500 and a very short aluminum stand???

Man, I'm really appreciating being able to drive my steel out right now!!!

22 rimfires are a lot of fun at long distances for the cartridge. Maybe consider trying that??? It's good way to learn wind.

There's no replacement for the act of doing. When I was practicing a lot for long range steel matches I developed a intuition of where to aim into the wind so I won a lot. That can be a perishable skill because that particular intuition has diminished since I don't shoot competitively much in that type of long range or practice like I used to.

However I've been shooting Field Target air rifle for 25 years steadily. I know where to aim in the wind quite well for that discipline. Well this year was a little different because I took 7 months off. I just shot my first match of the year last month and won the match, for FT I just know where the pellet will go because I've shot cases of ammo and hundreds of matches.

 

[Evan]

I was eyeballing an Atlas:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...picatinny-rail-mount-55-to-105-aluminum-black
but the price made my eyes water. It is on the list to find and purchase something really nice, but the price for nice bipods is steep and I need to prioritize what will give me the best improvement for my money right now. I think the Timney trigger is the very first thing.

I've posted up about some of my load development in this thread: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...k-down-a-load-when-switching-primers.3953690/

I do agree, I will see some vertical due to my ranging accuracy on top of the potential ES. I could work to improve both, and plan to, but I think they are small factors of inaccuracy at this point in time.

Not to toot my own horn, but I have fairly regular groups similar to this:

from the built 22-250 I bought from my uncle before he passed away. That's 5 shots at 100 yards shooting 52 grain comp bullets. That gun is an unbelievable machine, but is almost boring to shoot. My uncle worked up the load and it just works. All the groups aren't in the 1s, that was a particularly good day, but 3s and under are there when I am.

Here's my bench complete with forward rail to load the bipod:


I've got an 8" gong, but grew tired of carrying it! I plan to start using it again when I'm good enough at long distances.

 

[dc.fireman]

An air rifle, an understanding of the basics, and 33 ft. will go a long, long, way to train you how to shoot.

There are many books on marksmanship. My two personal favorites are the USMC's "Rifle Marksmanship Manual", and MEC's "Ways of the Rifle".

Both cover a lot of ground, quickly, and explain common errors/pitfalls in regards to training and routine.

 

[Evan]

I appreciate all the advice. I've got a timney trigger coming for the rifle. My shooting this morning went pretty well. It was pretty tricky, with wind gusting between 5 and 8mph, at maybe 60 degrees away from me. Seemed like my elevation and windage was changing shot to shot with the wind. I got off one nearly amazing group:

.19MOA with the first 4 shots, then the conditions changed and I threw the last one out, yielding 0.5MOA at 310 yards. I'm pretty excited about this! The gun may have even more in it than the ~0.4 MOA I thought! Most of my groups at 310 looked kinda like this:

All ending up right around 0.5 MOA.

My current plan is to look into some of the recommended books, install the new trigger and dry practice in the garage some, and stay around 300 yards for a bit where I can clearly see my bullet holes but the wind is still pushing the bullets around on me. As my wind skills improve and the groups at 300 shrink, I'll start stretching out and exercising my ranging precision with the wind calls.

Can some folks make a few recommendations on wind flags they like? I don't really know what to get that will help me out more than the little sprinkler flags I've got attached to the top of my targets.

 

[M14AMU]

Join the USMC!

They'll teach you!

SEMPER FI!

 

[Liven The Dream]

I appreciate all the advice. I've got a timney trigger coming for the rifle. My shooting this morning went pretty well. It was pretty tricky, with wind gusting between 5 and 8mph, at maybe 60 degrees away from me. Seemed like my elevation and windage was changing shot to shot with the wind. I got off one nearly amazing group:
View attachment 1053514
.19MOA with the first 4 shots, then the conditions changed and I threw the last one out, yielding 0.5MOA at 310 yards. I'm pretty excited about this! The gun may have even more in it than the ~0.4 MOA I thought! Most of my groups at 310 looked kinda like this:
View attachment 1053515
All ending up right around 0.5 MOA.

My current plan is to look into some of the recommended books, install the new trigger and dry practice in the garage some, and stay around 300 yards for a bit where I can clearly see my bullet holes but the wind is still pushing the bullets around on me. As my wind skills improve and the groups at 300 shrink, I'll start stretching out and exercising my ranging precision with the wind calls.

Can some folks make a few recommendations on wind flags they like? I don't really know what to get that will help me out more than the little sprinkler flags I've got attached to the top of my targets.

Creed more Sports har the proper flags on the web page . The NRA site will get you to High Power flags . The Book from Nancy is even better .