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How to hook up a BenchSource annealer to a 5 gallon propane tank

jlow

I know this has been covered before but I am just looking for advice on parts to do this. I've done a search on this board but came up empty. I’ve done annealing for years with the small bottles but want to convert to the large 5 gallon tank.

The simplest approach I have seen on the web seems to use a splitter at the tank and a couple of “Appliance Conversion Hose” to link the splitter to the torches. My question is this method does not appear to use a “Regular” at the tank which I understand is use to down regulate the pressure of the tank before it reach things like the host and torches – seems unsafe. Anybody with experience with this care to comment.
 
Thanks Drew, much appreciated!

I am pretty much ready to dive into this. From what I have read, this obviously does work, but just want someone to comment on the regulator question since I don’t have enough experience on this to make the proper judgment call.
 
It's easy. Hit Home Depot or similar for a regulator with hose in the Barbecue section. While there, they have brass T's, hose clamps and extra hose. Be careful of your connections. Test them for leaks with soapy water.
 
joshb said:
It's easy. Hit Home Depot or similar for a regulator with hose in the Barbecue section. While there, they have brass T's, hose clamps and extra hose. Be careful of your connections. Test them for leaks with soapy water.
Click to expand...
My propane bottle doesn't have a regulator why should you need one with a tank? Larry
 
I guess the question is whether they are at the sme pressure?

It's a question of how much pressure is in the tanks and what pressure the hose, fittings, and torches are rated for? I don't think any one wants one of those to break indoor.
 
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I can attest to the effects of low pressure. I did my last batch of brass with a COLD 20-lb tank; with the inner pencil flames touching the neck and the shoulder junction, I had to add about 1/2 second to the dwell time to get the faint glow I normally get. I also didn't get the overrun after shutting off the gas at the tank - I can usually get about 30 seconds or more of proper heat before the flames start to die. This time I didn't and the last couple cases were not adequately annealed.

I don't know what effect a regulator would have had, but from now on I'll warm the tank beforehand.

Dennis
 
Thanks for all the input - much appreciated.

Looks like the tanks have a vapor pressure between 60 to 120 psi. The thing to keep in mind is propane is not like pressurized air like those in a SCUBA tank which can be pretty high like 5,000 psi. Propane is a liquid and so only the pressure needed to keep it liquid is used thus the low pressure. The hoses have a pressure rating of around 350 psi, so pretty safe.
 
I think the use of a regulator is being misunderstood. I use an induction annealer as it has a more consistent heating level. The propane torches being used are WAY harder to adjust to a consistent heat level. By regulating the pressure, you don't need to fine tune a knob with course adjustments! Just turn the knob full on and adjust the flame by the regulator.
Now you will have the same flame each time you turn it on, regardless of how full the tank is. All you have to do now is mechanically adjust the flame position to a repeatable position and calibrate with Tempilac.
 
AFAIK, there is no proof at all that an induction annealer is more consistent – this is purely theoretical what we call conjecture. The same hold true that propane torches are “WAY harder” to adjust to a consistent heat level. FWIW, the type of regulators that one can buy for the propane tank are NOT adjustable at least as far as I know. You can see one on your gas grill. Regardless, please do not go off topic into a “mine is bigger/better” type of debate. If anybody wants to compare the different type of machines, we are all interested if there is scientific evidence available – in that case by all means start a new thread and show us.

My interest in using a 5 gallon propane tank is not to get more consistent annealing but to allow me to pre-heat the torches longer and to run a large number of cases without worrying about the smaller tanks running low and/or out. My interest in the regulator relates to safety and not consistency – I think I made that pretty clear.

The intrinsic degree of consistency of an anneal is a function of the design of the machine, the length of time of the anneal (longer within reason is more consistent since you get more rotation), and how well you set the anneal time. There is good evidence and firsthand experience by me and others that if you don’t warm the torches up properly before standardizing on an anneal time, the flame strength can change as it heats up – thus the interest here. Obviously if you run low on gas but power can also go out….
 
That's pretty sweet - thanks! Has anyone used one of these before with the torches associated with a BenchSource? Specifically how reproducible is the flame?

Thinking it through, I am not sure how much that helps. Basically the heat on the case is a function of four things – one is how strong the flame is, and the other three is the distance and direction it is pointing at and of course time.

Now assuming that the regulator makes the flame strength absolutely consistent, since you generally cannot keep distance and direction unchanged because you anneal different types of cases and the “locking” controls for holding and directing the torches are not foolproof say between anneals/storage, you pretty much have to adjust them each time. But in reality, the adjust of the flame strength, distance, and direction is coarse i.e. approximate since the only real fine adjust is time. Basically all three are lump into one and you start low on time and dial up.

So assuming that you warm the torches up properly and don’t run low on gas (the reason to use the 5 gallon tank), do you actually gain anything with an adjustable regulator?

I am not saying no but can some on convince me?
 
I'm not using them. I have thought about it. I also couldn't convince myself it was necessary. Someone take the plunge so I don't. Or I do.
 
Propane burning in air happens at a pretty consistent temperature, 3,623 degrees F. That inner blue cone tip is where the hottest temp is achieved. If one is careful to set a torch to give a consistent length for that cone, i.e. gas volume/minute, the number of calories produced to anneal brass will be reasonably consistent also. Keeping dwell to a known time with case necks at a known distance from that inner cone tip will give you consistent results if your brass is also of known and uniform thickness.

The rocket science aspect comes in when you start looking at brass grain growth vs time & temp. Our needs aren't much like that of high-volume production manufacturing after all.
 
It's a good point about "brass is also of known and uniform thickness" and how it affects brass. We've all seen the significant different in annealing time between different brands of brass, and that likely is due to this. But consistency of anneal as a function of neck thickness i.e. due to neck turning is something that is likely also true but not widely recognized.
 
jlow said:
Thanks Drew, much appreciated!

I am pretty much ready to dive into this. From what I have read, this obviously does work, but just want someone to comment on the regulator question since I don’t have enough experience on this to make the proper judgment call.
Click to expand...

All the parts came in today and it all fits and works - tanks again Drew!

Now I have 20lbs on call and little risk of running low for a long time. The other nice thing about this setup is the fuel is cheaper and more importantly now I have a backup tank for the grill just in case we have company and the other tank is running low!:D
 
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