How does anyone ever achieve the perfect load?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by clunker, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Homerange

    Homerange

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    Seeing is believing !
    A mate that re-barreled a T3 Varmint 22-250 to 6mm Rem that would better suit his long range requirements shoots into 1 1/4" @ 500 yds and at velocities that you don't see in print !
    His bro and bro inlaw shot 223 T3 Varminters into 2" with 69gr Bergers.

    I know of others that have bought the T3 Sporter in .260 Rem and in very short order gone on to win 800yd matches.
    It can be done, Tikka tubes are good tubes !
    Of all the rifles I've seen shot in from new, Tikka tubes consistently copper foul the least such is their quality of tube finish. That does lead to the risk of overlooking copper fouling further down the track and risk of the tube drifting 'off song'.
     
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  2. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Yep! Not going to argue with that. But the degree of difficulty rests squarely on the shoulders of the shooter, not the rifle. There's no way I will ever achieve the prowess of marksmen like Morton and Glover, but if THEY can shoot my rifle with good handloads and reach my goals, then I have the right tool for the job. Then it's up to me to get better at shooting. There are many members on this forum who have stressed that you cannot get better at shooting if your rifle sucks. And even more members who have stressed that someone hoping to tighten groups with factory ammo is wasting his time. I think that is good advice. Let's see what the Creedmoor can do at 100 yds with load testing, then I'll see if my skill is up to the task.
     
  3. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    My 15 year old Grandson shot a 5 in 10 shot group at 600 yards first time out.
    Tikka sporter
    Fixed 10x scope
    308 cal 22in barrel 11/Twist
    Fed 175 GMM
    Cheap rest
    He took his time scored 87 points in hunter class, even won a plaque.
    With handloads it might shoot 4inch.
    Jim
     
  4. REELDOC

    REELDOC

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    What if your flier was the good shot and your other shots were the fliers? I've messed several minds up with that simple question..................
     
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  5. msinc

    msinc

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    Drink enough Bushmill's me boy and that problem goes away!!!!!!
     
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  6. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Makes no difference if theres holes far enough apart to be called flyers
     
  7. K22

    K22

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    Perfection is the enemy of perfectly adequate - Saul Goodman
     
  8. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    5 shots into 2" at 500 yd is certainly not impossible and won't necessarily require an expensive custom rifle, either. Having said that, you will be hard pressed to to ever achieve that goal with a .223 Rem using lightweight bullets (50-60 gr), if there's much wind where you typically shoot. You should have a much better chance of loading to that performance level with the 6.5.

    If you ever want to markedly improve the performance of the .223 at distances longer than 200-300 yd, you'll need a fast twist barrel (7.0-twist is just about ideal), a chamber with longer freebore, and load bullets in the 80-90 gr range. It may not be ideal (or even possible) with your current barrel/chamber, but for future reference don't discount the notion of shooting heavy bullets in the .223; they can be made to shoot extremely well.
     
  9. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Yes! As mentioned earlier, I do not intend to shoot the .223 at distances longer than 300 yds, especially since it only has a 1/10" twist. That rifle was able to stabilize some 69gr Sierra Matchkings, but I wouldn't bet on anything larger. However, the Creedmoor should perform quite well in the wind with 130-140gr bullets. I probably confused some people by talking about two different rifles at the same time. Just to clarify, the end goal is to shoot tight groups at 500 yds with the Creedmoor, not the .223.
     
  10. Steve Ladino

    Steve Ladino Silver $$ Contributor

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    You will know when you find it.....the one that gives you complete confidence shot to shot.
     
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  11. balloonpilot9513

    balloonpilot9513 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I am fairly new to reloading as well.
    I have a factory tikka t3 in 223. that I developed a few loads for.
    In the beginning, I was thinking the same thing as you. There are so many variables with components that I will never find a good load without just dumb luck.
    I did a lot of research on this site and came up with what bullet, powder, brass and primer I wanted to use. There is a thread on here by Eric Cortina on 100 yd load development that I followed and it has worked very well for me. Eric is a very established national shooter and said that there has not been a combination that he has not been able to get to shoot with this method. I have not tried many combinations, but the few that I have tried have worked out for me.

    I do not hunt, but am obsessed with shooting as small as I possibly can. I am currently shooting 77gr SMK's with Varget, br-4 primers and Lapua brass. I put a penny taped to the backer and hit 3 out of 4 shots at 100 m with the load I developed. I decided to try my hand at 600yd benchrest and have a couple groups at under 2.25" at 600yds with this set up in my factory tikka (I have only shot the competition twice).

    Don't just load to what others are doing well with, I tried that and had no luck with it. Every gun/barrel is different, even of the same manufacture. You can use it for ideas in what you might settle on, but do your own load development.

    My 2 cents, do some research on this site. Decide what is working well for others in the way of components and from that list decide what will work for what you want to do with it, weather that is hunting, target or competition. Follow the process for 100 yd load development and don't stress over it. Besides, the more you are shooting, the better you should be getting at it and the more fun you should be having!

    Good luck and have fun!
     
  12. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the encouragement. You have the exact same rifle except that your barrel must have a 1/8" twist. I'd seriously doubt that my 1/10" twist would stabilize a 77gr bullet. What you have achieved with your loads is exactly what I'm going for, but I will probably end up with 60gr bullets at 300 yds because that's what the rifle likes. Thanks for the tip on Eric Cortina's load development method. If I have as good of luck as you with my .223, I will definitely use it for developing the Creedmoor load.
     
  13. seymour fish

    seymour fish

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    Dave, if you don’t believe Homerange, you certainly won’t believe a chrome lined TRW bbl m-14 will do 2-21/2” with boring regularity at 550 in a steady condition.
     
  14. seymour fish

    seymour fish

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    Rear bag with that bipod ? Any experience with any sort of rifle prior to the present ? Quickload would be a good fit for your addiction. Some suggest lots of dry firing
     
  15. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Gold $$ Contributor

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    My thought is a perfect load is only good for 3-5 hrs.
    Ben
     
  16. daniel brothers

    daniel brothers

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    most people blame the rifle... barrel... or other components, when the truth is... that they can't reload very well. Putting the correct powder/bullet combo together is a test of logical reloading skills... if you don't master that skill, then what makes you think you can master a rifle that has no properly tuned barrel harmonics skill level in it. The barrel whips... and it's that whipping that must be tamed by proper reloading combos in order to create a forgiving accurate rifle.

    A lot of people also don't shoot a high enough quality scope to even allow for tight groups. Everyone wants to blame it on the brand rifle or barrel, when they need to blame it on their reloading skills... once you learn those skills, then you can make most any rifle shoot to it's very best potential.

    I bought a savage 12 fv 6.5 creedmoor from cabelas that finally consistently gives me clover leaf groups at 100 yds after the correct combo was applied.

    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.... work you loads with a plan of purpose....NOT A HAP HAZARD STAB IN THE DARK.
     
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  17. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Exactly why I want to start reloading. I have shot some very tight groups with factory, but never consistently. Part of that is on me, and part of it is on the one-size-fits-all ammo. I have been researching powders for the .223, and I keep hearing similar reviews about Varget. The people who claim that it does not meter well with their system are the same people who claim that it is not as accurate as their favorite powder. Sounds to me like there is more of an issue with their reloading skill than there is with the powder. Those who love it, REALLY LOVE IT.
     
  18. SSL

    SSL Gold $$ Contributor

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    Best advice I can give you is that once you find the load that works to your satisfaction, STOP! Now concentrate on shooting technique and trigger control. Results will probably improve as you refine both. As accuracy begins to degrade (and it will) you can make subtle changes from a known base-line.
    Don't get locked in to recommended loads, powders or bullets other than as places to start. Even with the wealth of knowledgeable and experienced counsel on this site, consider it as guidance, not gospel. Three of my rifles are locked on "perfect" (for them) loads that use powders and bullets seldom mentioned here...and would probably not shoot well in other rifles. In time, I will have to start the quest again as barrels wear and etc. Every poster is trying to be helpful and considerate, but final results depend on you.
    Best of luck and stay safe.
     
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  19. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    I shoot a ton of 223 thru a match service rifle and used to use varget with great success. I switched to rl15 and when i think it couldnt get any better i tried n135. Its the holy grail. Ive used 8208xbr, 2015br, h322, etc- ive tried em all. Varget is #3 on my list. It shoots great groups but dont hold up over time in a semi heavy bullet 223.
     
  20. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

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    What do you mean when you say it doesn't hold up over time Dusty? Is N135 temp sensitive?
     

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