How does anyone ever achieve the perfect load?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by clunker, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Homerange

    Homerange

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    You need to !!! Save bipod use for the field.

    Don't discount the 50gr BT's unless you need to buck some wind.

    Good luck with doing that with a superlight sporter !
    Tikka's are good stuff but I think you'll be pushing poo up hill with a pointed stick !
    At best a can or a tuner might help you get there but definitely along with some careful load development as well.
     
  2. Dave Berg

    Dave Berg This used to be fun..... Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    You mixed units of measure there clunker so I'm not sure what your expectations are.

    2 MOA at 500 yards shouldn't be too hard. That's roughly 10" and a reasonable objective for a good factory rifle with some time and work invested.

    2" at 500 yards for a factory rifle will not be easy. That's 0.4 MOA which will take some effort to do consistently even at 100 yards. You'll need more than just the perfect load to do that at 500.
     
  3. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    425
    I met a perfect load early this summer. We went at it hot and heavy for two or three months, and then one morning she was gone. I changed a few things, and while we're back together... it doesn't feel the same. The trust isn't there anymore.
     
    Qcredneck and jimmymac like this.
  4. ClassCat

    ClassCat Unlimited Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    531
    I was testing bullets that i made, 62 and 66 grain with my 10 1/2 LB LV, 5 Shot groups @ 100 Yds. Wind was 5-12 and changing. That was a load that is in my archives that is 1 of about 15 that i have based on ambient conditions. The few targets with bullets out is me misreading condition. There is no PERFECT LOAD, Only a PERFECT SHOOTER You can see in target A-2 and D-2 the angle and velocity change in the wind Screen Shot 2018-09-13 at 7.35.53 PM.png
     
    Evlshnngns and NorCalMikie like this.
  5. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    125
    Sorry for the error in specifications. I want to shoot within 2" at 500 yds (0.4 MOA at the range). It's true that many factory rifles will probably not achieve this level of accuracy, even with very good hand-loaded ammo, but that is my goal. If the rifle can't meet those expectations, then I guess I'll start investigating custom barrels. However, if I can shoot MOA with a factory rifle with factory ammo with a bipod, then a more experienced shooter should easily be able to use custom ammo and achieve less than 0.5" MOA with the same rifle. I'm sure that my skills need to improve, but better skill is worthless if the ammo is less accurate than me. I should clarify that I do not expect the .223 to shoot that accurately (It will probably never exceed 300 yds for my purposes). I expect the Creedmoor to do it.
     
  6. Homerange

    Homerange

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Your Tikka will shoot nearly as well as the best custom tubes and from the Beretta family like Sako they make good tubes but 2" @ 500yds with a lightweight barrel ?
    Don't set you expectations too high.
    Good luck, you'll need it.
     
  7. cptjack

    cptjack

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    my problem is trying to get me 45 70 to shoot as good as me 22 250
     
    msinc and ckaberna like this.
  8. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,242
    i bet after touching off about 3 of those 45/70's groups start to open up.
     
  9. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,550
    I’m sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but we are about spend a metric ton of your money. It’s not personal. Welcome.
     
    JMayo aka haveme1 likes this.
  10. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,163
    Any or all of the above!!:cool::cool:
     
    ClassCat likes this.
  11. Dave Berg

    Dave Berg This used to be fun..... Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    You're going to be very disappointed but good luck anyway....
     
  12. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,550
    Many factory rifles will never see a group under 1 MOA. It's just the way it works. Some can, but I wouldn't count on it. The reason people buy customs is because when properly built, they will absolutely be capable of a consistent 1/2 MOA. Shoot your factory rifles, but don't be surprised if you can't get the accuracy you want. You will find very quickly that it's not you. It's the rifle. Don't fall into the trap of blaming the yourself because you don't want to be the guy who blames his equipment for his personal failures.
     
  13. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    425
    If your a decent handloader that Tikka 6.5cm should shoot 1/2 moa or better fairly easily.
     
  14. Dave Berg

    Dave Berg This used to be fun..... Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    There's an enormous difference between 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and 1/2 MOA at 500 yards. A 2" group with a factory rifle at 500 yards is pure luck and no one is consistently that lucky.

    If you doubt this check out the group sizes at 500 on the Mifflin Groundhog Shoot site. Very few people take this sport more seriously or win more than Rod Morton and Nate Glover yet their winning targets with factory rifles have groups at 500 yards in the 4 inch and up area. 2" at 500 consistently with a factory gun is an absurd objective that will lead to abject failure.

    http://www.mifflincosportsmens.com/groundhog.htm
     

    Attached Files:

    ckaberna and JRS like this.
  15. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    425
    Agreed... I simply meant it should be capable of shooting that well at 100.
     
  16. Homerange

    Homerange

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    I beg to differ and have seen factory Tikka's consistently shoot 2" groups @ 500yds with handloads but NOT in sporter or lightweight barrels. Most of Tikka's Varmint weight barrels can accomplish this in the hands of a competent shooter.
    My son's Tikka 243 SS fluted Hunter will shoot into 1/2" @ 100 all day long with handloads.
     
  17. cw308

    cw308

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    168
    It's a crap shoot , some production barrels could be tack drivers , you just have to be the lucky on the , now if you have a match grade barrel most will be tack drivers know matter what company you use , just try to get one that wasn't made on a Monday . I bought a Remington LTR 308 Caliber great shooter , after 4000+ through the barrel I had the barrel changed to a M24 5R Rock Creek barrel installed and completely blueprinted . It still is my one and only benchrest rifle I never get the urge to shoot anyother .
     
  18. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    125
    I won't be totally disappointed if I can't reach the goal of 2" at 500 yds. I know that's a tall order for a factory rifle. But 0.5" MOA with handloads at 100 yds is not uncommon for a factory Tikka, and that is the equivalent of 2" at 400 yds. That being said, if I manage to get the Tikka to shoot 0.4" at 100 yds but can't achieve 2" at 500 yds, that's on me. Can't blame the rifle.

    Beretta has been working on my Creedmoor for three weeks. If that thing doesn't shoot "lights out" by the time I get it back, there will be hell to pay. For the amount of materials and labor they have put into it, they should have just sent me a new one from Finland.
     
  19. Dave Berg

    Dave Berg This used to be fun..... Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    Sorry but I do not believe that for a minute. I've watched very talented shooters try for the last fifteen years with a lot of Tikkas, Savage LRPV, Coopers, etc. and have never seen anyone who could do it consistently. Once in a long while maybe but that, in my humble opinion, was luck.
     
    bigstick6017555 likes this.
  20. Dave Berg

    Dave Berg This used to be fun..... Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    Mathematically it's equivalent but then things like wind and mirage really screw things up. The difference in degree of difficulty when going from 100 yards to 400 yards is not four, it's sixteen. It's proportional to the square of the difference. Trust me, you will find out that mother nature is a bitch....
     
    SPJ likes this.

Share This Page