How does anyone ever achieve the perfect load?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by clunker, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Lucky Shooter

    Lucky Shooter Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Look closely at the target posted by joshb-----and-----if you can get your hands on a copy of Tony Boyer's book,
    read his chapter on tuning.

    There are many shortcut methods that might serve you well today and haunt you tomorrow.

    A. Weldy
     
    dgeesaman likes this.
  2. Webster

    Webster

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,745
    I bought a new Rem 700 last year. Never shot it. Took the new unused barrel off bought a Kreiger barrel 14 Twist 6BR 6BRX for $750. Shoots under 1/2" with practically no load development. The fore arm touched almost the entire length. Removed tupper ware forearm plastic next a skim coat of epoxy under the receiver and barrel. May not shoot it until next year. Too much fun shooting my 6BR.
     
  3. mikegaiz

    mikegaiz Stay frosty, my friend. Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    667
    I know this is a little off subject, sorry, but if you are not shooting your test properly, No amount of testing will ever work. Your bench process, gun, gun set up, and shooting technique is more important than your loading... Matching the barrel length/powder burn rate, twist rate/bullet weight, primer combination are really really important. Another thing is testing at the right distance to match your shooting discipline. Just to add more confusion to this whole string........
     
    seymour fish, mr45man and Homerange like this.
  4. fguffey

    fguffey

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,329

    I have rifles that are like most members on this forum; there are members on this forum that do not like anybody, and I am beginning to believe they do not like their selves. And I have rifles that do not like anything.

    Reminds me of the elder shooter from Washington state the went to the big contest in Ohio. He did not take a rifle; they loaned him a loaner and stacks of ammo. It was not long before he decided the loaner had failure built into it. He did not ask for better ammo. They took him to an armory that I assume was close to pick out another rifle. He settled on another loaner from a rack.

    He got a late start; again, the first rifle they issued him did not shot for dip, so I want to make sure the rifle is capable of accuracy because I have rifles that remind me of members on this forum, is seems they do not like themselves and they do not like others, again, I have rifles that do not like every cartridge I chamber and some do not like anything.

    If it was not for rifles that just do not shoot I wasted my money when purchasing a rifle for the sum of the parts.

    F. Guffey
     
  5. Homerange

    Homerange

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    501
    This ^ and a pgood trigger !
    So so true.
    But the OP's rifle is a 223 and one of the easy calibers to get good results from.
    Wanna push past the limits of loads found in books, well you're in for some work and with all the additional fire and brimstone stuffed into your brass, barrel life will be lost while doing so.
    KISS and good loads fall into place in fairly short order.

    But depending on your actual needs bullet choice can throw a spanner in the works particularly if needing good terminal performance over a variety of ranges. Punching holes in paper is piss easy as paper's quite easy to kill but get game with a tough hide, heavily boned or just a down right tough critter and you'd better be sure you're spitting the right pill. Add some distance and still require precision accuracy and then things get very interesting. Then there are no shortcuts and the work must be done.
     
    seymour fish and mikegaiz like this.
  6. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    my max kill shot is 50 yards,,308 w/168gr A-max using benchmark,,using enough to do the job and work the gas system and not any more,,load for what you do,,
     
  7. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,626
    My response regarding those two powders was because they're both double base powders, which I try to avoid as an F-TR shooter. I don't know what the OP's intended purpose is for this rifle, they may be just fine. Regardless, my main point was that it probably isn't necessary to try so many different combinations of things. I'll also add that a perfect load is a bit like trying to find the Holy Grail. What you really want is a solid load that shoots small groups and is resistant to changing external conditions, not necessarily a "perfect" load. I think the term "perfect" misleadingly implies very little margin for error, when we know that many of the parameters we are trying to tune, such as charge weight and seating depth, have optimal "windows", rather than a single specific value.
     
  8. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    278
    Or the benchrest shooters are playing around with effects that can be completely explained by noise, randomness, and shooters skill. There really is no separating which effects are causative and which are coincidental. Yes the Houston Warehouse experiments showed interesting patterns but they are not consistently replicated outside. The same is true for the rest of us and regular rifles, just with another fraction of Moa added in.

    If anyone tells you they even have a perfect load, then that statement is a perfect load of something else.
     
    Comrade Terry and pirate ammo like this.
  9. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    100%correct
     
  10. One Shot One Thrill

    One Shot One Thrill

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    262
    What would you call a load that produced a 5 shot group at 1k just barely over 1"?
    I call that the perfect load for the current conditions. Conditions change and those that shoot well adapt.
     
    seymour fish and pirate ammo like this.
  11. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    did you hit dead center,,just kidding,,could not help myself,,:rolleyes:
     
  12. One Shot One Thrill

    One Shot One Thrill

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    262
    It was not me. It was a very good friend of mine shot in IBS competition and was also a 50 - 5x
     
    pirate ammo likes this.
  13. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    I will admit I don't know a lot of stuff,I don't compete,don't know scoring,,just what is 50-5X,,I really don't know,,help me understand,,maybe,,show me a picture that
    I know
     
  14. One Shot One Thrill

    One Shot One Thrill

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    262
    Check out this link
    Link did not work look up potential IBS record at 1000.
    I'll try to attach the link again.
     
    pirate ammo likes this.
  15. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    don't worry,,I'll look around,
     
  16. JEFFPPC

    JEFFPPC

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Messages:
    352
    If it suits you and gets the job done I would say its a perfect load.
     
    pirate ammo likes this.
  17. pirate ammo

    pirate ammo Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,162
    that I can understand,,,
     
  18. cw308

    cw308

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    348
    Kind of depends on what distance your shooting , barrel twist .Most load books will give you a accuracy load , will be mid-range of powder scale with a certain weight bullet . Powders foul differently , so when changing powders clean your barrel or it will take seven rounds for the barrel to settle down with a change of powder . One change at a time . Find a promising powder charge with a recommended OAL for a certain bullet then play with jump or jam .
     
  19. clunker

    clunker Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    345
    Great replies everyone. I guess I should have specified my intent for the rifle and what I have experienced so far. The .223 is my first rifle. At 46, you would think that I would have started this hobby long ago, but it never seemed like the right time to actually purchase a rifle. Now I am addicted. I have fired at least 250 rounds of various factory ammo through the barrel and have a pretty good idea of what it likes (Nosler bullets, 50 to 62gr, and a max of 3 shots before letting the barrel cool). With good factory ammo, I am now getting approximately MOA if I don't take the 4th shot, and I don't think that number will ever get better until I start reloading. Those numbers are from shooting off a bipod on the ground in prone position. I haven't tried front and rear bags off the bench yet.

    The .223 will be my target/varmint rifle. Basically, something to shoot at the range while waiting for another barrel to cool. Plus, something to dispose of garden pests. My bullet choice is based on these two factors, and I don't want two different loads, just one that does both jobs. For that reason, I am leaning toward Nosler ballistic tip BT in 55 or 60gr (accurate and deadly to critters), but that's assuming that my rifle even likes that bullet choice. My research tells me that .223 likes fast burning powders. H335 seems to be the standard, but CFE223 has been rumored to reduce copper fouling, and it turns out that Nosler ballistic tips are known for heavy copper fouling (probably because they have an enormously thick copper base). These preliminary choices make a ton of assumptions, and I don't pretend to think that I have magically pieced together the perfect round without even starting to reload. That's why I started the thread, and you guys are awesome.

    My Tikka T3x Superlight in 6.5CM, which is still waiting for parts at Beretta's warranty service center, will be used exclusively for hunting. It is nearly weightless (in case I have to track a wounded whitetail), but I prefer to drop it where it stands. As I'm writing this post, UPS just delivered my 32x scope. I want to be able to consistently shoot under 2" MOA at 500 yards, and that will require load development. My bullet of choice is the 140gr Nosler Accubond, but once again, I don't have a clue if the rifle even likes that bullet. The Creedmoor will sit alone in its case for most of the year until hunting season. I just want to dial in the "perfect" load and take a few practice shots each year. Then I'm ready to put some meat in the chest freezer. Don't even get me started on discovering the 6BR. I already told you, I'm an addict.
     
  20. cw308

    cw308

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    348
    Very nice choice in calibers , the first two are great for hunting/ target , 6BR set up for benchrest only , trigger in ounces for that 1hole 5 shot group . This sport or what ever you want to call it is addicting. Bolt guns and rolling your own is the way to go. My need a second job . Good Luck to you , Be Well .
    Chris
     

Share This Page