How accurate is your 223?

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by rookie7, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. rookie7

    rookie7

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    I’ve read how accurate the 6br is - basically it’s king - and in general beats the 223.

    However, how accurate is your 223?

    Are we talking a difference between the 2 calibers possibly a .3 moa rifle compared to a .4 moa?

    Or is the real world difference larger?

    Thank you
     
  2. eric n

    eric n Gold $$ Contributor

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    How far?
    At 100, the .223 can shoot pretty darn small if your bullet/ barrel combo is optimized. My 6s will agg better but they are shot off a different front rest then my .223s. I would measure the difference in aggs, not moa given equal conditions.
    I’m not saying a .223 can run with a 6br, it can’t. But it can shoot small
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  3. rookie7

    rookie7

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    300 and in on distance. 26” heavy varmint 1/7 twist.

    With a quality barrel and the right load are we talking a .3 or .4 rifle?

    Considering the shooter has the ability.
     
  4. eric n

    eric n Gold $$ Contributor

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    What bullet?
    Conditions become a big factor at 300 so it’s hard to quantify but at 100, I’d look for a better load if it shot .4 moa.
    What are you doing with it? Competing or fun?
     
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  5. rookie7

    rookie7

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    Just for fun. I haven’t bought anything yet.

    My plans are to eventually build both the 6br and the 223, but I’m going to begin with the 223 since I am already set up loading it.

    Maybe the 88 eld m or something similar.

    In general if a good load and rifle combo is expected to do better than .4 moa that will satisfy my purpose for shooting for fun.
     
  6. Damon555

    Damon555

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    They can be very accurate......300 yards and in there's no need for a 1/7 twist barrel....I've never needed anything faster than a 1/9.......and no real need to handicap the 223 by shooting it with heavy bullets. Shoot light bullets fast and you'll be as accurate as you would be with any other rifle at those ranges. , plus you'll get great results on live targets too. IMO the 223 Remington is the best all around, dual purpose caliber.....varmints and targets....for the ranges that you mention.

    P.S. Every single Savage BVSS that I've purchased or shot (4) has been dead nutz accurate. For far less than a grand you can be ready to shoot right out of the box.....spin a pre-fit barrel on once you've shot out the factory barrel and you'll be even more surprised at how good those Savage 223's can shoot....One of mine is now a 223 AI....which is deadly with 40 grain bullets and shoots as flat as my son's 204 Ruger. Been shooting a 223 of some sort or another for 25 years.....everyone should have a few in the safe!
     
  7. Geno C

    Geno C

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    Not a regular 223 but my 223ai is a savage target action with a brux 1-8 30” barrel and its shoots pretty consistent 1/4 moa or less at 100 and 1.5” groups or less at 420yards is very common.
     
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  8. rookie7

    rookie7

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    Damon555, I want the faster twist for versatility.
     
  9. lb-ft

    lb-ft

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    You might call me crazy and that’s OK. Rem 783, bone stock, bipod, 1.25” groups are the norm w/68 Match bullets at 300 in ideal conditions. That’s the heaviest I can shoot with the factory 1:9 @ sea level and high humidity.

    62 Midsouth bulk are not very far behind and will often run with the 68 match.

    Rem 700 SPS bone stock shoots 53 Vmax into 1.5” very consistently at 300, again in ideal conditions. These clock at 3300 FPS.

    Full custom 222 is a consistent 1” performer at 300 with match 50s. It will go under 1/2” at 200. Conditions can be slightly less than ideal to group that well with this rifle.

    You don’t need heavies, or crazy fast twist, for 300 yards or even somewhat farther. Of course, heavies will help in less than ideal conditions.
     
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  10. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I am acquainted with a fellow shooter who, at last match won our 200 yds, golfball size, water balloon match. 10/10 then won the shoot off. I've shot w him for over 10 yrs, semi annual or annual, and he has the wood or consistently placed with his 223. Yes, he's a heckuva Indian but a 223 is in his quiver.
     
  11. natdscott

    natdscott P100, HM, DR, experienced beginner. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Dude, you need to up your expectations.

    My AR-15 match rifles are 1/2" guns, and better with the tuned Long Range loads. I only ever handled one that was a real 1/4" gun, but it did prove a concept fairly soundly...educated the sh#@ out of me, too.

    .223 can probably be a teen cartridge at short range.
     
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  12. Terry

    Terry Gold $$ Contributor

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    Savage LRPV 1:7 twist. 3/8" at 200 yards, 80 grain Nosler CC bullets, Target, and BR 4 primers.
     
  13. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    Well, the 223 isn't in the same league as the 6 BR. It'll shoot super small, sure, but anything built with excellent equipment and preparation will. The 223 won't do it day in and day out across many different conditions like a 6br will. Try to shoot 5 groups of 5 in a session, across 5 separate range days, for a total of 25 groups, and average it all out and compare to the BR guys' aggregates. It won't be competitive. Consistency is the game; when the focus is to not shoot any big groups, a 223 is like a loose cannon compared to the BR, which has far wider nodes.
     
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  14. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Rookie7 concedes up front that a 6BR would be a better choice for small groups. He also states he has chosen to start w a .223.
    Not much need to reiterate what he has conceded. He only asked what was reasonable to expect from his choice.
     
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  15. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    The .223 Rem can be extremely accurate/precise if set up properly with heavy (80-90 gr) bullets. Whether it possesses intrinsic BR-level accuracy is another story. Here are a few target images from one of my .223 F-TR rifles set up to shoot 90 VLDs (30" 7-twist 5R Bartlein barrel, 0.169" freebore), all shot from a bipod/rear beanbag:


    [​IMG]
    5-shots @ 100 yd


    [​IMG]
    5-shot groups @ 100 yd (Seating Depth Test)


    [​IMG]
    15-shot group @ 300 yd


    [​IMG]
    15-shot group @ 300 yd (< 0.5 MOA)


    [​IMG]
    2x20-shots @ 620 yd (3" and 6" scoring rings)


    IMO - the keys to shooting heavies in the .223 Rem are:
    1) having sufficient barrel length (28" to 30")
    2) having sufficient freebore (minimum ~0.120" for 80s, minimum ~0.169" for 90s)
    3) rigorous seating depth testing in small (</= 0.003") increments

    There are several ~90 gr bullets from which to choose; Berger 90 gr VLD, Sierra 90 gr Matchking, Hornady 88 gr ELDM. H4895 and Varget are good powder choices. 90s over H4895 will usually tune in around 2850 fps from a 30" barrel. Brass life is generally very poor (</= 3-4 firings). All the targets above were fired with 90 VLDs over H4895 at about 2850 fps. Varget will usually tune in about 20-30 fps slower than H4895 and may provide slightly better brass life.

    Loads with ~80 gr bullets such as the Berger 80.5 Fullbore and 80 gr VLD, Sierra 80 gr Matchking, Hornady 80 ELDM can also be loaded with equally outstanding accuracy/precision. In fact, loads with the 80s may be much better in terms of brass life. However, they do give up a certain amount of resistance to wind deflection at longer ranges.
     
  16. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^
    Now, that is some great info!!!
     
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  17. Big_Daddy

    Big_Daddy Gold $$ Contributor

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    Savage 12 Target.jpg Savage Model 12 BCTSS (Bone Stock from Savage)
     
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  18. Don

    Don Gold $$ Contributor

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  19. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    Sure, but he's asking a question with no answer. I honestly don't know what he wants. To be reassured his 223 isn't a handicap to his development as a shooter? Cause to that I'd say the 223 is an asset, not a deficit.

    My 223 was a 0.5moa gun. That's not representative of what the 223 is capable of. He might have a super good barrel, won the lottery so to speak, and have a 223 that'll shoot 0.1moa all day and go clean house at competitions. Even if the gun "only" shoots 0.25moa, thats better than most can summon on a regular basis and again is not a deficit. If you're consistently shooting the mechanical limits of your gun, move the target out until wind is opening the groups up and you're back to working on your skills.

    The honest answer is that if you've got a well built custom with premium components and perfect reloads, that 223 will shoot itty bitty little groups, but we can surmise, based on the long history, that the 6br gives you a much better chance of "winning the lottery".

    But that's just useless theory. You've got a 223, go shoot it and report back on how it does and we can all try to help you improve it.
     
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  20. swadiver

    swadiver Silver $$ Contributor

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    Savage target action, Shilen SM .223 barrel, XLR Industries Element chassis, SEB Joy-Pod.

    all 5 @ 100yds

    DSC06945.jpg DSC06951.jpg DSC06952.jpg
     

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