Hornady A Tip Match, anyone?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by FrogFire7, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. 284winner

    284winner Gold $$ Contributor

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    If they don't discontinue the ELDs, they will continue to be priced lower than Sierra and Berger bullets.
     
  2. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

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    They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they discontinued eldm's.
    Let's face it, guys have been shooting great scores and setting records as is with what's already available at half the cost.
    Sure people are gonna buy them. But how many people can afford them dictates how many they'll sell.
    I can only hope that they work out great for those that do give them a shot, maybe it'll move the market to a point where the bullets that I do shoot with great success become cheaper.
     
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  3. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Gold $$ Contributor

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    The concept is based on the fact that bullets are subject to drag forces all over, but the drag forces are not the same from front to back. When you add up all of these drag forces, they average out to a single point. (Center of pressure). It matters in bullet design to control the location of this point and also the bullets center of gravity. Using an aluminum tip gives them some control and might also allow a longer and higher BC bullet than lead and copper jacket alone would allow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  4. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Dgeesaman,
    What you're describing is the Center of Pressure. I've never studied aerodynamics of even played with radio controlled airplanes (a gap in my nerdiness) but I do recall that rocket (or bullet) is stable with the Center of Pressure ahead of the center of gravity. Seems back ward to me. If drag is at the rear, it would tend to keep the front in front and the back in back. For example: a parachute. --Jerry
     
  5. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Seems like plastic tips would be better than aluminum if you want to go the tipped route. The heavier the tip, the less effective it is at doing its job, which is to allow for a longer bullet with a more compact inertia. Any misalignment is also going to cause more problems if the tip is heavy. I wonder if they’re tying to mitigate the self inflicted marketing challenge of convincing people their tips don’t melt.
     
  6. carlsbad

    carlsbad Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Or a bigger aluminum tip. I think partly they are addressing the melting plastic, but also turned metal tips are more precise than molded plastic tips. I think they are trying to make a hybrid--semi turned solid and semi-lead. I like the looks of the Alco bullets that take the concept farther.

    https://www.alcobullets.com/-ALCO-P...at-Tail-Aluminum-Tip-ULD--Box-of-50_p_26.html

    bc of .832 compared to berger 184 with bc of .695
     
  7. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Gold $$ Contributor

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    True, but what's the BC of a parachute? Or more analogous, the BC of an arrow.

    Thats why bullets need to spin - to counteract the instability that comes from a CoP and CoG being inverted.
     
  8. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Have those bc’s been independently verified? The nose on those looks awfully short. I also wonder if you’re not asking for trouble in terms of balance by increasing the mass of the tip that much. It’s an interesting solution to the problem of getting higher BC bullets and still keeping them controllable, but I’d expect them to have their own challenges to overcome, cost not being the least of them. Then again, I have zero experience with these so maybe it’s not as difficult as I’m imagining. We’ve come to expect a stunning level of precision in jacketed hollowpoints. That’s tough to improve upon. Solids seem like a better route to go if you’re going to bow to the BC gods.
     
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  9. Zeke 225

    Zeke 225

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    Did they receive a contact with the military, and this may be what they are loading for it for there long range stuff? Just a thought.
     
  10. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ah. I found a video explaining the aluminum. It’s a manufacturing issue. Plastic is superior but they couldn’t make plastic tips as big as they wanted because the injection molding process is difficult with bulky parts. This makes sense. It’s a compromise between mass characteristics, cost and achievable length.
     
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  11. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    How much are true match bullets?o_O I have fallen behind i guess.
     
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  12. rwj

    rwj Gold $$ Contributor

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    What defines a “match” bullet?
     
  13. dstoenner

    dstoenner Silver $$ Contributor

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    These days, Marketing. :(
     
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  14. FrankG

    FrankG

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    I could be wrong but I’m going to say no not to my knowledge the A-Tip had nothing to do with any military testing or contract.
     
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  15. FrankG

    FrankG

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    I’m going to say depending on how the solids are made they will be more temperamental. The solid doesn’t give like a jacketed bullet will to some extent. Also I feel solids going back to being temperamental and how they are made the size of solid and the actual bore/groove size of the barrel should be very close. What I’m saying here for example and will use a .30cal barrel...if the groove size of the barrel is .3085 and the solid is .3080” it’s going to fit looser in the barrel.

    Later, Frank
    Bartlein Barrels
     
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  16. montef

    montef Silver $$ Contributor

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    Used the conversion kit this morning at the range on some of my "green" tipped bullets. Was hard to tell the difference in the variable winds (12-20+). IMG_1008.JPG
     
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  17. Zeke 225

    Zeke 225

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    How is the tip made on there 750 gr. Amx it’s the same principle. Did they use that bullet or something similar for there long range application.
     
  18. DukeDuke

    DukeDuke

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    MONEY!
    Good for us! We are all here because we have plenty of it!
     
  19. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Silver $$ Contributor

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    For sure - I totally agree. Solids have their own issues - the ones these aluminum tips are trying to solve. But as with everything, we're trading one set of problems for another. I love that Hornady even tried to do this at scale, even if I find their marketing a bit over the top. (seriously? sequential packaging? And a cloth bag to clean them with? How silly is that? It's insulting to their customers' intelligence.) The concept is good IF they can sort out the problems inherent in the design. I'm looking forward to seeing how these turn out.
     
  20. JimT

    JimT “I don’t even own a piece of camo!”-Kenny Jarrett Gold $$ Contributor

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    I believe the article at the link below contains the video you are referring to. Looks like Hornady concluded that Al was superior to plastic for this application and future development.

    This video also answers many other questions that have been posed here and other places. It’s about 18 minutes long but worth viewing if you want to be informed.

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...tm_campaign=/digest/hornadys-aluminum-tipped/
     
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