High expectations dashed

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by magic mike, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    I am currently working on a new project rifle which until yesterday I was quite excited about. For a few years now I have wanted a 6br so a short while back I finally bought one. My choice was a Savage 12 Benchrest. I am not a competition shooter, just a guy who enjoys punching holes in paper targets. Read a lot of good stuff about the inherent accuracy of the over the counter Savage rifles and my shooting buddy has a couple of them that shoot lights out so I thought I would give one a chance. Never had a Savage before but the ability to swap barrels and the availability of good quality hand lapped barrels was very appealing so I bought it.
    Yesterday was the first chance I've had to get to a range that I could shoot out to 100 yards. I took four different loads with me to see how they printed. One of them was the load I used to print a five shot group at 50 yards that measured about 3/8" at my local indoor range. I proceeded to shoot six five shot groups using each load, some twice, and none of them grouped under two inches! This was a 72 degree day with zero wind. I packed up and left the range going over everything I could think of on my drive home that could have resulted in such lousy results. Once home I checked everything over and found no loose action screws or loose scope mounts etc. So, next thing was to grab my buddy's bore scope and look at the barrel. What I saw was enough to make me toss my tacos! This barrel is an absolute piece of junk! I looks like starring down at a railroad switch yard! Thers's not a smooth spot in it! It sucks!
    If a company is going to sell a rifle as a "target" rifle why in the world would they put a junk barrel on it! The whole idea of a target rifle is to shoot the smallest groups possible. Raise the price $200 bucks and put a decent barrel on it! There is no damn excuse for this. My buddy has a Savage LRPV in 260 Rem and we scoped it and the barrel looks good. Not a match barrel but a pretty good looking barrel and the gun shoots great. I am really disappointed with Savage about this and it makes me wonder about their quality control. I say this because I contacted them about a couple of other issues I discovered when I got this rifle. One was the action screws were only engaging the action by two threads and the tiny 6-48 tapped holes for the scope rail required thread chasing before the screws would go in. The response I got was "OK". Boy, I feel better now!
    I'm going to re-barrel this rifle with an after-market barrel and my guess is that it will shoot great. I see no reason to contact Savage about replacing it as I don't want another piece of crap barrel or the hassle of sending the gun back to them. I am going to send them some pictures of the bore and tell them what I think about it. What's right is right, and this ain't right.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
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  2. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Those same barrels that look awful shoot very good on every other savage. You just never know, but savage isnt a top shelf product anyway. If it was it would cost the same as a top shelf piece
     
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  3. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    Call Criterion Barrels. I have a friend who uses them extensively. He has never got one that did not shoot tiny little dots! They have them made for the Savage. You need to talk with them and make sure you get one that has been chambered with the correct reamer for what you want to do..
     
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  4. Rsadams

    Rsadams

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    Do a proper break in and hit it with some JB before you give up , or just rebarrel it your choice...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  5. Terry

    Terry Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have 3 Savage 6 BR's. None of them have this problem. Sorry you did.
     
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  6. muleman69

    muleman69 USMC -1st marine Div. RVN Gold $$ Contributor

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  7. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    Mike
    One thing that you mentioned was ( you took 4 different loads to the range)
    I’m wondering how you worked up those loads.
    6 Br has parameters 28- 30 grs
    Varget powder
    8 twist barrel and 105 class bullets etc but you really need to develop a load not just grab one someone mentioned.
    I’m not saying the barrel is good or bad that’s for you to decide.
    Just curious
    Jim
     
  8. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    Like I said, raise the price of the gun a couple hundred bucks and put a decent barrel on it. Anyone can buy one for $300/$400 so why not do it right to begin with.
    I bought a new Remington 308 PSS a few years back and had the same problem. Took it to S@S and $1100 bucks later I had a rifle that would shoot. I guess it wasn't a top shelf product either. I understand that you cannot compare custom stuff to mass produced stuff but it doesn't excuse plain old poor quality.

    Mike
     
  9. biggen0_8

    biggen0_8 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Krieger is making ready to go Savage barrels now.
     
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  10. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    They should come out with a new model that has close enough tolerances to put a decent trigger in it. They could double the price
     
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  11. Terry

    Terry Gold $$ Contributor

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    What is the twist rate?
     
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  12. DHuffman

    DHuffman Gold $$ Contributor

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    I've never had a heavy barrel Savage that wouldn't shoot small after a proper load workup and seating depth test at the range i intend to shoot.
     
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  13. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    It sounds like you're done with the rifle already, but there's a lot of guys here who would help you make sure no stone is left un-turned before you condemn it.

    Just my opinion here: I think using a borescope in this situation was entirely misleading. All you did was validate for yourself what you had already decided about the rifle. You saw what you looked for: a crappy looking barrel. Crappy looking barrels frequently shoot really well and pristine looking barrels can shoot very poorly.
     
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  14. Cloudrepair

    Cloudrepair Gold $$ Contributor

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    I got a used 308 once and looked at it with the owner and asked him what have you been shooting through it he said mostly one brand and some of those nickle plaited fed match bullets and I thought oh c%#p but bought it anyway because the price was right.
    I couldnt get it to do better than 1.5 groups well I pulled the barrel thinking I'll put it on my wife's 30-06 and it will still get the deer and kick her less.
    Took it to the range and it would shoot all touching with her actiono_O
     
  15. slugger3

    slugger3

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    Large and small shank?
     
  16. Mark W

    Mark W Gold $$ Contributor

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    I would like to hear your response to post #7 before the quality bashing starts. If I took four random loads to the range and one of them were good I would load up on lottery tickets on the way home. Just saying.....
     
  17. murray brook

    murray brook Silver $$ Contributor

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    @magic mike
    I'm no expert by any means, but if it were my rifle I would give it a real good cleaning and pick an approiate bullet and powder and do a good ladder test. What do you really have to loose. One thing I have experienced is a hunting rifle that would not shoot for crap till appx 175 rounds then turned into one of the better rifles I own accuracy wise.JMO
     
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  18. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    Let me show you how ugly it can get.
    Pictured below is a 6 Br ladder test
    Savage rifle-
    There is a fire form node between shots 1-2
    Other than that it’s all crap until shots 9-10 ( high node)
    You would swear that the barrel is NO Good
    I will post an additional picture in a moment
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    I’m back
    Now, pictured below is the same rifle with a different bullet, powder charge identified at 200 yards then seating test at 600.
    Notice the upper right 5 shot group.
    That’s my same pos Savage rifle;)
     

    Attached Files:

  20. magic mike

    magic mike Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thank you SPJ. All of your targets pictured look like mine at 100 yards!

    The loads I put through the rifle were as follows;

    Lapua brass
    105gr ELD M
    29.5 gr Varget
    CCi 450
    0.010 jump

    Lapua brass
    105gr ELD M
    30.0 gr Varget
    CCI 450
    0.010 jump

    Lapua brass
    105gr Hornady BTHP
    29.2 Gr H4895
    CCI 450
    0.015 jump
    This was the best load at 100 yards.

    Lapua brass
    105gr Hornady BTHP
    29.5 gr H4895
    CCI 450
    0.015 jump

    I believe any of these would be 1 MOA loads at 100 yards and could be tweaked a little one way or the other to dial in some small groups. I had to start somewhere so listed above is where I started.
    I have shot this rifle out to 900 yards with less than stellar results. Frankly my DPMS AR-15 Bull 20 kicked its but at 400 yards. So something is not right.

    I'm not new to working up loads and my intention is not to bash anything or anyone. I have no intention of giving up on this rifle and I will continue on until I arrive at an acceptable result based on my abilities and knowledge. I am sure that it is very possible that a really bad looking bore could shoot great and a really great looking one could shoot bad. If you start out with a good looking bore and it won't shoot despite all your efforts you can feel pretty comfortable that it's a dud for some unknown reason. If you start out with a bore that looks like forty miles of bad road (which mine does) and you expect it to shoot well and for some reason it does, that's pure luck. I will call James at Northland tomorrow and order a new barrel for this gun. My problem is once again, if you advertise the rifle as a precision piece of equipment the component parts should reflect that statement. The barrel on this gun does not.

    From the Savage website;

    "Demand precision that's up to any challenge. The Model 12 Benchrest delivers with the Target AccuTrigger™, which can be adjusted from 6 ounces to 2.5 pounds, and a full-profile stainless steel barrel that's button rifled and perfectly balanced with the wood laminate stock. The rifle also offers an oversized bolt handle and single-shot, dual-port Target Action."

    Yes, I realize that the above is a subjective statement but it is what it is.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Mike
     
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