Help with Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die 6mm BR

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by LR_Shooter, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    I got this die and I tried to FL size using 0.268" bushing, but it won't resize whole neck any ideas why?
    when I pull it back from the die I have to apply lots of force to get it out... Brass is lubed with imperial, body and inside of the neck.
    [​IMG]

    scratches on the brass are from trying to chamber it, I think its headspace its to hard to turn.
     
  2. ridgeway

    ridgeway Site $$ Contributor

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    It's the way the die is made. Nothing to worry about. Some guys prefer to adjust the bashing to sized even less neck area.
     
  3. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    so it should bump shoulders back way before, because I was thinking it will after whole neck is sized?
     
  4. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    LR Shooter,
    The bushing has nothing to do with bumping the shoulder, as a matter of a fact you can remove the bushing and still bump the shoulder with the die. I personally don't like the fact that the bushing won't size all the neck if you want to. make sure you don't have the bushing screwed down tight as it could cause concentricity problems, put the bushing and turn down stop until snug, then back off about 1/4 turn. best of luck to you.
    Wayne.
     
  5. Heavies

    Heavies Site $$ Contributor

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    I would recommend the competition shell holder set to do your head space.
    Just follow the directions till you get the sizing you need.

    Start with the thickest and work your way down till you get the case to chamber easily. Or if you have measuring tools, you can switch out the holders till you get the desired shoulder bump. Most folks like .002" bump.

    Hope that helps. :)

    Aloha.
     
  6. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    so nothing is wrong with my die, well its either I buy headspace gauge and set chamber as it should or I will buy shell holders. I'm planning to switch barrel to 260, so headspace gauge sound like good investment...
     
  7. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    the shell holders are not a necessity, you can set the die up to bump the shoulder enough, if not then the positive shell holders you buy from Redding won't help at all as they are plus .002,.003 ect ect and you would need to be negative to get the job done or take a little off the bottom of the die.
    Wayne.
     
  8. fdshuster

    fdshuster Site $$ Contributor

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    Get a good headspace gauge, either the Hornady or Sinclair, and the issue will be settled. I've never seen the need for the shellholders of various thickness. I've been using the same couple of standard shellholders for many years now, for dozens of different 6BR case head ctgs., have the Redding FL S type bushing die adjusted to bump the shoulder back .001" to .002", and it's a non-issue for me. Keep it simple. I've never found the small area that is unsized at the base of the neck to be an issue either. It's caused by the radius that must be on the bushing for a smooth entry of the case mouth, otherwise it could hang up and the case neck would be crushed. Actually that small ring is conforming to the chamber diameter at the base of the case neck, providing a snug fit, a good thing.
     
  9. CatShooter

    CatShooter

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    This die is not really a full size die, it is a shoulder and body size die - the die itself, does NOT touch the neck. The bushing sizes the neck. You can adjust the amount that the neck is sized by adjusting how much the bushing is forced over the neck. Many shooters just size 1/2 or 1/3 of the neck.

    That small part of the unsized neck that you are talking about, comes from the shelf area that the bushing sits on, plus the bushing has a rounded edge, so a little bit of the neck cannot be sized, and as another respondent commented, this is absolutely normal.

    Have you left the Redding expander button on the decap rod... these are sometimes very hard to withdraw. Redding includes a small collet to hold the decaping pin in place WITHOUT the expander button - it makes things easier if you use this, and do not expand the neck on the way out.

    There is no need for headspace gauges or comp shell holders.
     
  10. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    thank you for all the replies! CatShooter, I was playing with this die resizing cases then trying them in my chamber, but bolt is still hard to close or open, so I thought maybe its not touching shoulder. However I did play with candle and I was bumping shoulders more then just 0.001. Because I start reloading 6BR on the short notice I don't have Hornady Headspace Gauge in .350", but its on order. The expander, I did leave expander on, I tried to take it off last night but couldn't get it to turn, I'll get it cracked, just trying not to scratch it while doing it.
     
  11. fdshuster

    fdshuster Site $$ Contributor

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    LR_Shooter: Reviewing your postings, I do not see any history noted of the brass. Has it been fired in your chamber only? How does new Lapua chamber? And what about case length versus chamber length? Do you know what your chamber length is and are trimming accordingly? I guess there is always a chance the case mouth could be hitting the end of the chamber. By all means, get rid of the expander button. That's the reason Redding includes the small fitting to hold the decapping pin in place without the expander. I understand some do not believe in, or use the Hornady/Sinclair headspace and bullet seating depth gauges, but I use mine constantly. First measurement I take with a new chambering, is headspace length of the fired case as it comes out of the chamber, record that length, and adjust the sizer die for that before mentioned .001" or .002" bump. Use the bullet seating depth gauge and keep a record of erosion as it develops so seating can be kept at touching, .010", .020" etc. of jump. One of my most valuable tools, after the Hawkeye. ;)
     
  12. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    Brass fired twice it was neck sized new out of the box, then it was neck sized again, its when I noticed I cycling problem, now I'm trying FL size it. Brass is short it was 1.500 new now its 1.550", I don't see any scratch marks on the mouth so assume its not anywhere close to be touching end of chamber, I only see scratch marks on the body close to the head and on the shoulder.
     
  13. ridgeway

    ridgeway Site $$ Contributor

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    I have a Redding Type S Dasher die that is the total opposite. If I let the bushing float, I get +/-.002-.003 run out. If I tighten the bushing snug, I get +/- .0005 run out. Experiment and see what works best.
     
  14. CatShooter

    CatShooter

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    This is getting curiouser and curiouser...

    There have been a lot of posts that have clouded the air, so to speak.

    You need to get to the point where the problem appears, in order to sort it out.

    1 - First, look at the base of a fired (not sized) case, just about 1/4" above the rim - is there a bulge that sticks out maybe 5 thou?

    2 - Do you have any fired cases that have NOT be sized - if so, do they chamber OK, or are they hard to chamber? Stand the rifle on it's muzzle (on a carpet) and drop a fired case straight down into the chamber, and close the bolt - other than snapping over the rim, is there any resistance to closing the bolt? They should go in easily.

    3 - If no to #2, then take two sized (with the expander button in place) cases, without bullets, BLACKEN the upper body and sholder, and neck/mouth. Now do the same. What happens? If there is resistance, where is the most black gone from?

    4 - Now do the same as #3, with blackened cases and bullets (no powder or primer)... let us know what happens.

    "Inquiring minds want to know" ;)
     
  15. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    Yes I have fired unsized brass, there is something weird I noticed, never seen before... Yes they are hard to chamber, open and close.
    Look at this pressure formed line running from shoulders to the base:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. CatShooter

    CatShooter

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    Shooter...

    You have not said what kind of rifle it is.

    Is it a classy custom rifle, or something cobbled together.

    I have never seen those marks either. Plus, no matter what, it is unusual for a fired case to to go back in the rifle it was fired in.

    What is getting to be clear (kinda) is that it is not the dies, cuz the case is hard to chamber right from the rifle (or so I understand at this point).

    Please tell us more about the rifle.
     
  17. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    This is Savage Model 12 LRPV in BR stock, it has target action right bolt left eject. It looks like this one, but eject port on the other side, plus barrel is fluted. https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/12benchrest.png
     
  18. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    I think those lines are made by something in the chamber, maybe its off center or not perfectly round. I think those line are like locks, and after I FL size my cases they are round, but the chamber ain't ...

    more images

    [​IMG]
     
  19. CatShooter

    CatShooter

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    Shooter...

    Good morning (can it be good at 4 AM ??)

    I am convinced that you have a chamber problem. Back some time ago, I bought a "new" 300WM barreled action to build a 1,000 yard match rifle. The cases were hard to extract and did not want to go back in - it turned out to be reamer chatter that was barely visible.

    Is your barrel a Savage factory barrel, or an after market barrel?
     
  20. LR_Shooter

    LR_Shooter

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    whole thing is brand new from the factory, I didn't buy this one from store or dealer, it was shipped right from the factory to me with test target.
     

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