Well guys you finally have someone to help field your Tract questions. My name is Brian and I'll be taking over for Trevor. I had a sit down with Jon recently and I decided to help with consulting. To start things off I'm not an optics guru. I'm just a guy who likes to shoot. My daytime job is a firearms examiner for a large department. My hobbies include Cerakote, Duracoat painting and pretty much anything that goes bang. I prefer rifle shooting but, I also shoot pistol and shotgun. As far as optics go I'm not the guy to tow a single party line. If your brand works I'm all for it. I do honest testing and if it doesn't I'll be the first to say so. Doug over at Cameraland knows me for a long time. I run everything from Nightforce, Swarovski, Zeiss, Athlon, Leupold, Steiner and even Vortex (Jon breaks my balls over it all the time). I will try to answer any questions you have and If I don't have the answer I'll get it for you. Lets try to keep things civil. These threads get out of control and guys expect too much at times. No optic is perfect but, I know Tract is an excellent brand and they are here to stay. I remember when Vortex started in the early 2000's. All I ask is you give Tract and I a fair shot. Thanks for your time.
Hello from the new Tract Optic guy
- Thread starter bhoges
- Start date
Lkwebb
Gold $$ Contributor
I watched a video by west desert shooter and fell in love with the scope. I was wanting to purchase one for my very first precision rifle. I then found out I can't find them in any local gun shops.
I have the Tract Toric 30mm, 4-20x50 and their Response 1", 2.5-10x42 and their Toric 10x42 binos. The Torics have stellar glass in them and the optics are MUCH better than anything near their price points. The 4-20x50 is a fantastic scope for the money. Built like a tank. I just bought a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-20x50 and the Toric has noticeably better optics. Much better than their $ 200.00 difference normally gets you. Toric image contrast and color quality compares with the top tier Canon camera lens I own which are many thousands of dollars.
The glass they use in the Toric line of optics generate super color definition and contrast (often equal to others scopes and binos at twice the price) which makes animals and birds really pop out of trees and brush. Toric optics contrast are better than my 25 year old Stiener 8x56mm binos and the Torics are almost as equally bright as them, even though the Torics have smaller 50mm objectives! I'm sure the newest and most high tech coatings of today helps the Torics in this area that the Steiners were lacking 25 years ago.
Today............Japan optics glass quality is much better than ten years ago and Tracts marketing method of selling direct allows us to get GREAT optics for the money. Everyone that has viewed my scopes at the range think they are a steal for the money. Their optics are at least 25-30% less (sometimes much less) than comparable quality optics. I got the Response scope at close out pricing (less than $ 200.00!). That was really a steal of a deal for me. Image really looks good and is a great 1" scope. It has tracked perfectly on an AR223 rifle.
There is a point of diminishing returns in quality and feature set with optics. IMHO there is a price point break at or near $1,000.00. There are a lot of optics at that price point with very good optic qualities and feature set that are VERY similar such as my Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-20x50. For only a couple hundred bucks more, Torics deliver the next level of quality optics that you have to pay another 600-1000 bucks to get from other manufacturers.
I'm thrilled to death with the Tract optics I've purchased. I just wish they would hurry up and come out with different power ranges and reticles for the Toric 30mm line before their prices go up. Jon said they will be coming out next year with more tree type reticles of their own design.
The glass they use in the Toric line of optics generate super color definition and contrast (often equal to others scopes and binos at twice the price) which makes animals and birds really pop out of trees and brush. Toric optics contrast are better than my 25 year old Stiener 8x56mm binos and the Torics are almost as equally bright as them, even though the Torics have smaller 50mm objectives! I'm sure the newest and most high tech coatings of today helps the Torics in this area that the Steiners were lacking 25 years ago.
Today............Japan optics glass quality is much better than ten years ago and Tracts marketing method of selling direct allows us to get GREAT optics for the money. Everyone that has viewed my scopes at the range think they are a steal for the money. Their optics are at least 25-30% less (sometimes much less) than comparable quality optics. I got the Response scope at close out pricing (less than $ 200.00!). That was really a steal of a deal for me. Image really looks good and is a great 1" scope. It has tracked perfectly on an AR223 rifle.
There is a point of diminishing returns in quality and feature set with optics. IMHO there is a price point break at or near $1,000.00. There are a lot of optics at that price point with very good optic qualities and feature set that are VERY similar such as my Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-20x50. For only a couple hundred bucks more, Torics deliver the next level of quality optics that you have to pay another 600-1000 bucks to get from other manufacturers.
I'm thrilled to death with the Tract optics I've purchased. I just wish they would hurry up and come out with different power ranges and reticles for the Toric 30mm line before their prices go up. Jon said they will be coming out next year with more tree type reticles of their own design.
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I believe Nightforce is made here in Idaho. Some parts may be made in Japan but they are assembled here. Matt
Dud
Have you put your eye through any Optika yet or did you just purchase it on faith hoping that it will be good? I'm too anal to do that. I'd prefer to view one first.
How nice was the image?
I've viewed a Meostar R2 and of course they are increadably bright and crisp........... but so is the price. I totally expect the Optika will be a step down from the Meostars quality glass due to it's price point ...........but I wonder how much the image will suffer. I'm afraid that the Optika won't come close to my Tract Toric or even my Vortex Viper PST GenII. I hope it does but the Optika is about half the cost of the other two so you have wonder how good could they be. Could they be using Jap lens to get cost down?
I'd like to get the Optika 6, 3-18x50 SFP with the illuminated BDC-3 or 223RD reticle. I just wish I could see one first. May have to just bite the bullet and do it.
Has ANYONE viewed an Optika that can give us an opinion on its optic image quality?
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I ordered on faith.
Years ago I ordered a Minox scope when I only knew them from spy cameras. It turned out pretty well, a lot of scope for the money. It had a similar story, European design with Schott glass. I got the big one with a 30mm tube.
I bought my Tract scope on faith too, I saw a few good reviews and jumped in having never seen one in the flesh. Similar story, with American design I think and Schott HD glass. Again, I got the big one with a 30mm tube.
In my opinion, Meopta seems like a much more known quantity than Minox or Tract were when I bought those scopes.
Optika 6 5-30x56 is European design, 2 elements of ED glass, probably not Schott or they would have said so, a lot of the features that I like in the Tract Toric, the Dichro MRAD reticle and a great price point.
Would Meopta try to make this big of a play and then fumble the ball?
Some companies do that but they get a bad reputation real quick unless they have great customer service and make everything right.
One other thing, if you look at the 5-30x56 specs, it looks like a scope that could be marketed to PRS shooters which makes it kind of like a "Halo" product. They went to the trouble of making a 34mm tube for that one model, added ED glass elements and possibly included an optional tree reticle due to customer request. I doubt they would go to all of that trouble if they didn't want to sell a bunch and that is why I think they are going to be delivering a scope that performs, it's the big one with the big tube.
It's not that I'm some kind of rifle scope tube size queen, it's just that all three companies were trying to grow an American market and I bought the outlier of their product line. I was also looking for scopes to shoot 1,000+ yards and bigger tubes mean more erector travel which means I can run a scope base with more slope and dial in a lot more drop for far targets.
If I wanted a 34mm tube, they were out there when I bought my Minox, they were just $$$. Same with the Tract, for 50% more I could have got a 34mm tube Vortex Razor HD last year.
Today there are 35, 36 and 40mm scope tubes but they are all expensive. There are a few 34mm tube scopes under $1,000 these days. I don't think I would want to buy any of the others
Years ago I ordered a Minox scope when I only knew them from spy cameras. It turned out pretty well, a lot of scope for the money. It had a similar story, European design with Schott glass. I got the big one with a 30mm tube.
I bought my Tract scope on faith too, I saw a few good reviews and jumped in having never seen one in the flesh. Similar story, with American design I think and Schott HD glass. Again, I got the big one with a 30mm tube.
In my opinion, Meopta seems like a much more known quantity than Minox or Tract were when I bought those scopes.
Optika 6 5-30x56 is European design, 2 elements of ED glass, probably not Schott or they would have said so, a lot of the features that I like in the Tract Toric, the Dichro MRAD reticle and a great price point.
Would Meopta try to make this big of a play and then fumble the ball?
Some companies do that but they get a bad reputation real quick unless they have great customer service and make everything right.
One other thing, if you look at the 5-30x56 specs, it looks like a scope that could be marketed to PRS shooters which makes it kind of like a "Halo" product. They went to the trouble of making a 34mm tube for that one model, added ED glass elements and possibly included an optional tree reticle due to customer request. I doubt they would go to all of that trouble if they didn't want to sell a bunch and that is why I think they are going to be delivering a scope that performs, it's the big one with the big tube.
It's not that I'm some kind of rifle scope tube size queen, it's just that all three companies were trying to grow an American market and I bought the outlier of their product line. I was also looking for scopes to shoot 1,000+ yards and bigger tubes mean more erector travel which means I can run a scope base with more slope and dial in a lot more drop for far targets.
If I wanted a 34mm tube, they were out there when I bought my Minox, they were just $$$. Same with the Tract, for 50% more I could have got a 34mm tube Vortex Razor HD last year.
Today there are 35, 36 and 40mm scope tubes but they are all expensive. There are a few 34mm tube scopes under $1,000 these days. I don't think I would want to buy any of the others
Dud
Like you I also bought the Tract Toric on faith and it did turned out to be a great buy. All three of my Tract purchases have been and they were bought without ever seeing one of their optics. All an exceptional bag for the buck. I hope the Optika line is also. The price point is what is really scaring me. They are such a feature packed scope.................... how much money can be allocated/remaining for optic quality at 500-600 bucks? I hope it is enough.
Optics Planet is having a great Labor Day sale right now. I think I'm about to just give in and get one today. Sometimes you just have to "Go for it" like we both did with the Tracts and hope it pans out.
In regard to your Schotz glass comment.................I think remember reading somewhere that Meopta DOES use German Schotz glass in thier scopes. Also that there IS different quality grades of Schotz glass. Maybe Meopta is using a less costly grade of Schotz or even out sourcing using Japan glass in the Optika line to keep cost down.
Like you I also bought the Tract Toric on faith and it did turned out to be a great buy. All three of my Tract purchases have been and they were bought without ever seeing one of their optics. All an exceptional bag for the buck. I hope the Optika line is also. The price point is what is really scaring me. They are such a feature packed scope.................... how much money can be allocated/remaining for optic quality at 500-600 bucks? I hope it is enough.
Optics Planet is having a great Labor Day sale right now. I think I'm about to just give in and get one today. Sometimes you just have to "Go for it" like we both did with the Tracts and hope it pans out.
In regard to your Schotz glass comment.................I think remember reading somewhere that Meopta DOES use German Schotz glass in thier scopes. Also that there IS different quality grades of Schotz glass. Maybe Meopta is using a less costly grade of Schotz or even out sourcing using Japan glass in the Optika line to keep cost down.
Companies like Tract and Athlon have shown that modern manufacturing can turn out scope internals that just work even coming out of China or the Philippines.
Luckily doing that type of manufacturing is possible anywhere and cost isn't really tied to location as much as it used to be.
Glass is a little more difficult. First you need good optical design, then you need precisely ground glass, good coatings, baffles to avoid internal reflections and then propper assembly and QC. Meopta can do that. The only question is did they?
The optics industry has made huge leaps in the quality of mid range and entry level scopes. Features and reliability keep getting cheaper.
Maybe in a few years my Tract and Meopta scopes will look as outdated as my Minox does today. I say bring it on but I'm going to enjoy what I can get today too.
Luckily doing that type of manufacturing is possible anywhere and cost isn't really tied to location as much as it used to be.
Glass is a little more difficult. First you need good optical design, then you need precisely ground glass, good coatings, baffles to avoid internal reflections and then propper assembly and QC. Meopta can do that. The only question is did they?
The optics industry has made huge leaps in the quality of mid range and entry level scopes. Features and reliability keep getting cheaper.
Maybe in a few years my Tract and Meopta scopes will look as outdated as my Minox does today. I say bring it on but I'm going to enjoy what I can get today too.
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