Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by yotehater, Jul 17, 2016.
Try some pro ears gold Larry
Would they stop me from hearing you?
Ear plugs WITH electronic muffs, best protection and can hear range commands and wind coach.
So like I mentioned I always wear the foam in canal plugs too. The ones I ran over were the Howard Leights Thunder 29 which provided great protection. I don't really want to deal with the hassle of batteries in my muffs so are looking at these with a NRR of 31.
Walker's Pro-Low Profile Folding Earmuffs (NRR 31 dB)
They seem to have the reduced profile to allow better head to stock fitting than my older ones. In black of course.
I lost too much of my hearing back in the oilfield when we didn't even wear hardhats or eye protection most of the time. Hearing protection wasn't even considered unless working on a roaring compressor engine. Funny my right ear is the one with most of the hearing loss as the wife sits in the passenger seat I hardly ever hear her. ha
My blue healers love to ride in the ext cab back down into the bottoms with me and start barking like 100 dB if they see a pig or cattle so even when out on the farm driving with them I muff up. Those old RCBS ones are so hot and heavy compared to newer styles so gotta get something asap.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.
The issue that I have found with Muffs is that they interfere with the rifle stock more than I like. Most companies make a "Slim Line" model that do help. I still buy the "Yellow" Foam disposable ear plugs as most of my range time is alone with me the only shooter.
Research carefully and if you go with muffs, make sure they have an auto off feature. The worse pair of muffs I owned were $100+, required $5 batteries, and if I forgot to turn them off, I'd best expect buying new battery. Got too expensive and threw them away.
I think a little body filler and duct tape ,you will be go to go ..
The electronic part of muffs adds nothing to their protection. That is provided by the construction of the muff. Most all electronic muffs that are thin enough to not hit the stock when I am shooting do not have the level of attenuation that I am looking for, but then that is true of non amplified muffs as well. The advantage of the amplified muffs comes with their allowing you to hear range commands better through plugs when using double coverage. Generally this is not an issue for me. I use the 33 db rated Howard Leight foam plugs in combination with some old muffs that are probably no better than the thin Peltor shotgun muffs that have a 21 db rating. What I rely on for my hearing protection selection decisions are my ears. I hear significant differences between various products and combinations. Another thing that I pay attention to are after effects, any slight temporary increase in tinnitus after a range session, or or other discomfort. I have custom molded plugs, so I can speak to that option from experience. In the last couple of years I have done a little innovation that is entirely out of the box in how i use the foam plugs. At some point I finally figured out that I was not getting a proper seal at the outside of my ear canal from the foam plugs, and while inserting them deeper would solve that issue, it created a new one...getting them out. To solve that problem I came up with a simple home made modification, that gives me a "handle" that does not alter their attenuation. This gives me the best of both worlds, the advantage of deep insertion and ease of removal. There is one other product that I see has not been mentioned, that I have found works remarkably well, even though it looks like it would not, and although there design precludes use with foam plugs inserted to normal depth, by using my modified plugs I have been able to double up, producing an eerie silence that has to be experienced to be understood. This is what I am talking about.
To get them to work as designed, I find it necessary to put them on the way that the manufacturer recommends.
Beyond preventing hearing loss, which is of course the primary concern, I find that maximizing attenuation helps my shooting, reducing the risk of involuntary reaction to loud noise, allowing me to be more relaxed.
I'm sorry, but MarkinFolsom was not totally correct in his surmising that doubling noise reductions is not simply additive.
The OSHA document for one is not the latest document. Number two, the discussion of adding double protection was based on using and manipulating NRR numbers which are not measured values but constructs. NRR is a number generated by the manufacturer of a hearing protection device and this mfr must determine the best case attenuation and from that subtract the average error in attenuation by incorrect insertion or use. This is a complete artificial number and the gyrations in the document to determine total protection using double protection are based on manipulating these NRR numbers.
I was using best case numbers as a real attenuation which is as good as the OSCHA manipulated value. If that is the case and we take a pair of 26 NRR muffs and a pair of Etymotic ER-20 plugs with 20 dB attenuation we will get "theoretically" 46 dB of attenuation. Not quite true as the mastoid bone short circuits this series arrangement of two protective means by an attenuation of 40-45 dB so we will practically get slightly over 40 dB. The reason you can add real noise SPL values is shown by taking a muff with 26NRR which is statistically 26 dB or a reduction of 20 times and add the ER-20 which is statistically 20 dB or a reduction of 10. The muffs are actually pretty accurate in their NRR ratings where foamies can vary quite a bit due to folks being able to do all kinds of dumb things with them but muffs go on effectively very easily. The ER-20's are designed to have 20 dB attenuation and are pretty easy to fit correctly. So, 26 plus 20 is 46 and 46 dB is a reduction of 200. 26 dB is X20 and 20 dB is X10 so 20 dB +26 dB is 46 db which is X200 as is X20 times X10.
Also, in a real world environment, octave bands are primarily used for Audiological discussions and measurements and real world sounds are expressed in dBA or dBC which are two different weighting (or filter) functions. That is why the threshold of pain is commonly expressed as 120 dBA and not the 140 dB value based on octave band measurements.
Further, for our purposes, "C" weighting should be used as "A" weighting is the response of the human ear at low levels, "B" weighting at moderate levels and "C" weighting is the response at high levels and includes way more of the low frequencies the other weighting scales ignore!
Be VERY careful with government documents!
50 years from now you will have the answer. I won't be here for the results .
My advice is use the best and don't worry about too much . Larry
So you bash my use of OSHA documents but site them in your first post:
"These plugs are OSHA rated at about an NRR of 28-30 dB due to the many ways they can be inserted incorrectly."
Please post some reputable citations, not just opinions, so we can make some informed decisions.
Using ear plugs and muffs is sort like wearing belt and suspenders. Either the plugs don't stay put or they don't work well. Any rubber ear plug for $3 at Walmart will do the job. They stay put and block all noise.
Since you're a hunter and stalker it seems to me you'd want noise protection but still be able to hear sounds around you. Since you can use ear plug I would suggest the Peltor TEP-100. I started using them when I became match director, I had to hear what is going on around me while still getting protection. I was skeptical at first but a friend of mine had a pair and he said I should try them. I did and never looked back.
I never cared for the $40 ear muffs because I'm a prone shooter and they get in the way of shooting. They do provide hearing protection and allow some ambient sound, but they are nowhere as good as the Peltor.
You better read BOTH my postings.
Quality hearing aid style hearing protectors have a limiting effect that limits the SPL of the sound FROM THE DEVICE from exceeding 117 dB SPL. At least the Etymotic GSP-15 does, and the attenuation of the basic device, when installed correctly, give the additional required attenuation.
About a year and a half ago a similar thread was going on and I was looking for better hearing protection, and I took normmatzen's advice and bought the GSP15 at $350. Then for another $150 I had the custom plugs made by them , and they don't hold the device right they have a tendency to pop out, and are made out of unmarkable silicone so don't mix them up.
Do they work=yes, are they worth the price - not in my opinion, my Howard Lieght work just as good except they some times interfere with stock contact, but they are only $40 compared to $400.
Plus the batteries for the GSP 15 need to be replaced weekly where as the HL's seem to last forever.
My experience only others may differ, but buyer beware buy good quality protection even if it means stretching the budget a little or a lot your hearing does not come back.
I need some type of hearing protection that can be worn while hunting. I don't mind the foam plugs at my range as I am the only one shooting. I am wondering how the muffs and devices like the GSP15 compare as far as situational awareness is concerned? I'm sure the plug type would be more comfortable and unobtrusive. I could also benefit greatly from some extra volume while hunting as like most of us my hearing is already somewhat compromised.
The GSP-15 is approved for military and law enforcement personnel due to their ability to maintain situational awareness. In fact, Etymotic sells a model specifically for that purpose but they are identical to the GSP-15.
Careful with digital devices, they add a delay to the signal through the digital signal processor that can degrade situational awareness. And, digital devices do not have the fidelity analog devices do, and I don't care what the advertising info says!
The batteries last me a month or so as I open the battery door whenever I am not shooting to effectively turn them off. I buy the #10 batteries on ebay for a very low price. My hearing aid batteries too.
My hearing aids are analog also even though Etymotic developed a pretty good digital device with excellent fidelity.
Glenn, do those have steel wires in the headband? (Looks like they do.) I don't like all-plastic headbands, they're light, comfortable, and cheap to make, of course, but they can snap at the worst possible time after a few years.
I have some old Norlin 31 dB industrial ear muffs with a solid, wide steel band. They almost hurt my head they clamp so tight, and are bulky, but they really seal properly, won't jostle off easily, and will still be serviceable long after I will. Not for wearing all day, though.
I'm reading some surprisingly good reviews from shooters for these, I'm skeptical but intrigued:
These are the best on the market. You won't be dissapointed.
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