Good groups @100yds.

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Ranger188, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    Hera ya go Kentucky...

    This load shoots about .5-.6" at 100yds...nice round group for 5 shots (no target photos). The target below is at 600yds, same load, 10 shots/1 sighter. Tom touched on positive compensation and it is the reason I want to do final tune at the distance I will be competing at.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. tom

    tom Gold $$ Contributor

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    Lol, it was a "question" to get others to think for themselves.

    Tom
     
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  3. Coyotefurharvester

    Coyotefurharvester

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    A question for the 600 yard + guys,specifically off bipod. I have heard that the vld type bullets may not produce as small of groups at 100 yards compared to the 300,600,1000 yard groups. So for a vld bullet could be 1 moa @100, but could hold 0.3@ 300+ yards due to the bullet "settling down".
     
  4. Erik Cortina

    Erik Cortina Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain Silver $$ Contributor

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    It’s a myth. That doesn’t happen.
     
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  5. Coyotefurharvester

    Coyotefurharvester

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    Erik, thanks for the quick reply. I'm a hunter who wants to shoot as well as possible with the equipment I can afford. Since joining this site and learning how to use my reloading equipment correctly, and acquiring some good basic measuring equipment. And then making some adjustments to the way I support and handle a rifle while shooting my groups have improved. The single biggest performance adjustment I have made, learning how to tune to reduce the vertical dispersion.
     
  6. Bindi2

    Bindi2

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    Do not remove all the vertical. You will get a group like the one Evan posted. You will not know if it is a wind shot or a barrel shot if you do.
     
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  7. RGRobinett

    RGRobinett Silver $$ Contributor

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    "And there, you have it"!;)
    Many years ago, I was privy to some testing at White Sands, NM - some AMU guys were there, testing a variety of VLD bullets (the DOPPLER RADAR there could detect the bullets from muzzle to over 1K) - the BC variation was amazingly LARGE.

    One of the individuals had some of his personal [.300Win. Mag.] ammo, loaded with my 187gr FB - which, in that era, were being used by several successful IBS 1K BR competitors: the BIB FB had the most uniform BC (G1 .525) of any bullet ever tested (up to that date) at White Sands, and were far more consistent than the VLD types . . . but, of what use is uniformity?:D

    With relatively limited opportunity, those, extremely uniform, "low BC" bullets were used by competent shooters to win National Championships: Joel Pendergraft, not only won/placed/showed regularly, but also scored a 1K ten-shot group record which, assailed by thousands of opportunities, stood for right at a decade: BC uniformity remains an issue.:eek:RG
    DSC_0120.jpg
     
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  8. Coyotefurharvester

    Coyotefurharvester

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    So with a typical "factory" bullet is the published b.c. an average to be expected or a best case number?
     
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  9. SPJ

    SPJ Free Advice Gold $$ Contributor

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    Blessed are those who show up with rifles that AGG 1.50 at 600 yards.
    Congratulations to y’all in advance.
     
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  10. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    KY_W suggested that should be my game plan. I'll let you know when that happens to me.:)
     
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  11. Don

    Don Gold $$ Contributor

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    Long Time Paper target Shooter ..
    In the late 80's early 90's a Service Rifle NRA 2,3&600 yards.
    I worked a load for 200 yards ( clean the target it did).
    That load at 300 was a waste ... Developed a 300 yard load ( cleaned the Target and Won Trophy at Camp Perry Double Clean with 12X).
    Those loads would not work in reverse ????

    I read somewhere years ago BT Bullets don't start to work till after 200 yards ????
    I test at 200 and 300 yards, group size and SD my guide.

    With this as my loading style I have been in the Winner Circle more than once at 70 + .
    I shot a lot of Palma Matches over the years Placed in a couple Regional's Made HM
    Cleaned the 8,9&100 Target at times ,Never shot a 450 ..... 448's a few.

    If a small group at 100 yards is guide for good groups at longer Distances ??

    Then Small Groups at 200 & 300 are What ??
     
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  12. KY_Windage

    KY_Windage

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    Is there some point you are trying to make? ONE TARGET tells you very little. I have seen inaccurate rifle/ammo combos shoot amazing groups, only to never be able to repeat anything close to that again.

    Your original post implied that whether a rifle/combo shoots very well at 100 has nothing to do with how it will shoot at 600, and that is bunk, unless you are shooting an inappropriate bullet, of course.

    Yes, we all want setups that shoot .25 at 600, but for most people getting to a 600-yd range is a pain, and catching a flat-calm day is difficult. If you're shooting in a breeze at 600 it is impossible to tell how truly accurate your setup is. However, I can shoot in a fair amount of breeze at 100 and still learn a lot about how good that setup is.

    When I get very small groups at 100 I know I am going to do well at 600.
     
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  13. rebs

    rebs

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  14. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ok.... The point I am making is that a load that shoots very tiny groups at 100yds does not always shoot correspondingly small at 600 or greater yards and that loads that shoot a little larger than I would ideally like can shoot very well at distance. I don't like a 'one hole' group at 100yds...they have never shot as well for me at distance as one with a little vertical at 100. That is all I am saying based on my experience. I am not here to argue. See you at the range:).
     
  15. rmr

    rmr Gold $$ Contributor

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    when our local 3gun club was shooting a lot of "long" range: 4-5-600yards, i was looking for a cheap LR bullet that would do it all. round counts in 3gun is high.. it isn't unusual to burn 150-200rds rifle only on a club match, and most of the shooting is point blank: less than 25y. the problem becomes the LR stages. switching ammo mid stage takes time and lost time = lost matches, but i can't afford to shoot .30cpr bullets at 25y targets.

    i was trying to get the 75G PPU bullet to work at 600y, because i they were dirt cheap and i had a ton of them. it was grouping fine at 100, 3/4", at 300 it was 6", and at 600y hitting a std IPSC was iffy (18") I'm not sure what the issue with the bullet was, but man it was terrible past 300. it was most certainly a problem with the bullet itself.. i switched to the 73g berger, (everything else remaining the same) and was immediately shooting 4 to 6" groups at 600 with a 18" AR. (keep in mind this is 3gun, moa is good enough for that game)
     
  16. Ranger188

    Ranger188 Silver $$ Contributor

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    As Eric C. stated, environmental conditions plus bullet B.C. and quality of that bullet
    will all help or hurt the groups at a farther distance.
    Pretty simple, isn't it.
     
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  17. johara1

    johara1

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    It is called a cone of dispersion, bullet quality and barrel quality really show up at longer ranges. .... Tuning at 100 under controlled conditions, .1 or or less repeatable groups with single digits ES. will shoot at 600 and 1000 ...... jim
     
  18. INTJ

    INTJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    I really like that term "cone of dispersion". I think it can help people understand what happens at longer distances with various bullet's. It seems to me that generally, lower BC bullets have a larger cone if dispersion than higher BC bullet's. Therefore, to shoot well at long range, lower BC bullets must shoot smaller short range groups that higher BC bullets.
     
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  19. johara1

    johara1

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    Time of flight, high BC. bullets hold speed better and have less time to be pushed around by the wind. I don't know about shooting smaller at 100, the heavies will repeat in the zeros. It is two different type of rifles and it is hard to beat a PPC or a 30 BR. up close, but is hard for them to keep up past 300 yds. .... jim
     
  20. Erik Cortina

    Erik Cortina Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain Silver $$ Contributor

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    BC has nothing to do with the “cone”. In identical wind conditions, they would all fly the same path.
     
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