Getting Rid of the Vertical

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Hondo64d, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Hondo64d

    Hondo64d

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    I'm thinking if I can tune the vertical out of this load, it will do everything I could possibly ask of it. I'm probably going to start with systematic seating depth adjustments. Is that the right approach for getting rid of vertical stringing?

    Thanks,

    John

    [​IMG]
     
  2. cmillard

    cmillard Site $$ Contributor

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    i found that my vertical and shot to shot consistency went away when i started jamming the bullets into the rifling on my 6BR with 105 bergers. i would give that a try, also switching from br-4s to wolf small rifle mags helped
     
  3. Bill K

    Bill K

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    I would start by putting a small amount of pressure near the forearm/barrel of your rifle i.e. a small piece of cardboard/felt, and see if that slight pressure does not settle your barrel down and stop the vertical rise. Or if you already have a pressure point there, remove it and let your barrel free float all the way. Could be the problem.. Bill K :)
     
  4. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Site $$ Contributor

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    If you don't mind, describe your rifle, what it is rested on, and where the rests make contact.
     
  5. Hondo64d

    Hondo64d

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    Rifle is a Bryant Custom on a Stiller Predator Action with a Brux barrel. The rifle is sound. Mike is among the best there is.

    Please understand that I only see this vertical with this particular powder. H4831 doesn't display it, giving rounder groups. I just thought with the horizontal being so good, that if I could shrink the groups vertically, I might really have something. Here is another group. Same components, just 1gr less powder.

    [​IMG]

    Front Rest is a Caldwell Rock and rear is leather bag. I position the forend where the bag is about 6" behind the tip. There is about 2.5" between the bipod stud and the front of the bag. I have no rear swivel stud.

    John
     
  6. North Fork

    North Fork

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    If it was me i would play with the seating depth
     
  7. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Site $$ Contributor

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    If another load does not produce vertical from the same rest setup, then it is likely the load. Have you established what the maximum load is? Where is your seating depth in relation to touch or jam (the longest that you can seat without the bullet being pushed back as the bolt is closed, at the neck tension being loaded with) ?
     
  8. fullersson

    fullersson B&B Gunworks bbgunworks.com Site $$ Contributor

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    http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

    "Virgil said his practice was to seat the bullets so the engraving was half as long as the width of the lands. He noticed an interesting phenomenon with rifles that could really shoot: if the bullets were seated a little short and the powder charge was a bit on the light side, the groups formed vertically. As he seated the bullets farther out and increased the powder charge, the groups finally became horizontal. If he went still farther, the groups formed big globs. He said the trick is to find the midway point between vertical and horizontal. That point should be a small hole."

    The quote is from the article "Secrets of the Houston Warehouse". I would play with seating depth and powder charge. I don't just say that based on this article. In my personal experience powder charge and seating depth is what needs to be looked at when trying to tune a rifle. Brian Brown
     
  9. WyleWD

    WyleWD

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    When it shoots a vertical string group like the ones shown, does it start at the top and go lower, or does it start at the bottom and go higher.... by any chance? This is important to know for possibly solving your issue.

    If it just randomly throws them in a vertical string, I'd hold your current neck tension and try to sneak up a couple or three tenths in powder if there is room to do that first. If no affect then go to your 42.5 load and up the neck tension a couple thousandths. Just make one change at a time so that you know what is causing your issue. JMHO. :)WD
     
  10. jo191145

    jo191145 Site $$ Contributor

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    I agree with Fullerson and Virgil King.

    Now if thats a 200yd target I would suggest seating the bullets .003" closer/into the lands. Sometimes/most of the time thats all thats required.
    If its 100yds more drastic tweaking may be required.
     
  11. artbosco

    artbosco

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    Speedy Gonzalez covers a variety of issues that can cause Vertical at this link: http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/cures-for-vertical-stringing/

    And as you can see, Tuning is just one of them. You can start where you want, then check off the categories, as you go.

    When I have vertical problems that are load induced, I can usually solve it within a 6/10th of a grain Range.

    Record what your load is now, then move up or down in 2/10th of a grain increments. For example, if have two bullet holes of vertical sitting on top of the bottom hole and my load is for instance 29.0 grains, if I go to 29.2, 29.4 and 29.6 grains, I can usually eliminate it.

    If I feel like it's eliminated, at say 29.4, I try 29.3, 29.4 and 29.5 to fine tune. Once I decide on which load I feel is best, THEN I'll start with seating depth adjustments for further refining. All of this is predicated on the fact that, all the other things that Speedy discusses, were not the cause.

    There are a lot of things that can cause Vertical, you have to work through each of them, one step at a time, until each one is eliminated. If you have a gut feeling that it's load related, then start there.
     
  12. Hondo64d

    Hondo64d

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    I appreciate everyone's reply. A bunch of good info here. Given how other powders have performed, I'm going to pursue tuning the vertical out with powder charge and seating depth.

    John
     

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