Gentlemen, I present... the ".220 REDLINE"

Discussion in 'Varminter & Hunting Forum' started by fredo, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. fredo

    fredo Silver $$ Contributor

    Feb 6, 2015
    I like wildcats.

    And being an avid predator hunter, I've gravitated toward 'hotrod' type & flat is where it's at!!! Maximum point blank range and terminal performance on critters are key elements for a 'hotrod' to improve upon, over factory available cartridges. Ideally, the performance gains should justify the extra time, effort & expense of wildcatting. That's never set in stone, we all like what we like... :)

    Several years back, I built a .22-243Win. The 1:7.7 Krieger launched 75Amaxs nearing 3500 fps, and they sure can fly at that launch speed! But then, I saw a friend's (slow twist) .22-243AI, and couldn't stop wondering what that "Improved" case could do with a faster twist??? So, built a .22-243AI on a 1:8 Brux, and that has been my 'favorite' predator cartridge for a while now. Fireforming brass on summer 'chucks & LR steel targets was good fun, and the AI'ed case allowed for another 100+ fps gain over my previous straight .22-243Win. A longer throat & full case of slow burn H1000 allows my .22-243AI to run 'cooler', mitigating throat erosion for this overbore cartridge. Have a coyote killin' friend who swapped a new barrel on his .22-243AI after 1500 rds of 80Amaxs, and it still shoots under well 3/4moa as a fireforming barrel. Lots to like about the .22-243AI!

    So, where's this all going, you might ask???
    Well, the same 'wildcat' itch has begun to fester & I kept looking at all this SAUM brass & those Redding 7SAUM dies...wondering "what if"...

    What if I necked a SAUM case down to .224? o_O

    That question has been bouncin' around in the brain bucket for a few years now. Well, a wild hair grew from my azz, and decided to spend some time on what this monster might behold???

    First thing to consider is: bullet integrity. My .22-243AI is throwing a 75Amax @ 3600fps from a 1:8 twist barrel, generating ~324,000 RPM. Needless to say, that is ALOT of spin! Every bullet handles RPM differently, depending on its design & construction. Going over the edge on RPM may result in bad things happening, from inconsistent penetration, "splashing" on animals, to outright "poofs" where the bullet never even makes it to the target. So, keeping a bullet intact & happy is of paramount importance! With the huge increase in case capacity, a .224 caliber SAUM is prolly gonna push a 75-80 fast enough to make 'em quit...

    So, easy answer to address excessive RPM? Slow down the twist rate! Let's assume 3750fps as an MV for a 75gr bullet from this .224 caliber SAUM wildcat. From a 1:8 twist barrel, that 75gr bullet would be spinning over 337,000RPM!!! NOT GOOD, that number kinda scares me. I sure don't wanna invest all this time, effort & expense to start blowing bullets up after only a few hundred rounds down the pipe. And I sure don't want the bullets that can handle that stress to be "splashing" on a coyote!!! The whole idea is to kill them with extreme prejudice & authority where they stand! Otherwise, this just ain't worth it. BUT...if ya drop down to a 1:9 twist, that 337,000 RPM magically drops to 300,000. Still ALOT of RPM, but despite a 150fps gain in MV, its actually considerably less RPM that my present 1:8 .22-243AI. That bodes well for keeping bullet jackets intact, and coyotes in the dirt. Me likey... :)

    However, there are some things that need to be checked to insure a given bullet will fully stabilize from less twist. Enter: Berger's wonderful Stability Calculator!
    Given that same MV of 3750 fps, a 75gr VLD is "marginally stable" from a 1:9 twist barrel, with a factor of 1.2. That is @ sea level & 30°F, atmopsherics toward the lower end of intended use. Given the conservative MV estimate, I'm OK with a stability factor of 1.2, so that finalizes the twist rate for this .224 SAUM @ 1:9... :)

    Now, what brass should I use? Necking down from .300SAUM is not practical, especially given that there is 7SAUM and 6.5(SAUM) 4s brass on the market. Just happened to have some brandy new Norma 7SAUM brass, so let's go with it! I used bushing I already own, and got brass necked down in three steps. Before doing so, I did remove the stem from my Redding Type S FL 7SAUM die, so it would not interfere with the decreased neck ID. A bit of Imperial Sizing Wax, and here we go!

    1st bushing: .291
    2nd bushing: .270
    final bushing: .258"
    That was easy! ;)
    (.252 bushing at right will be final tension bushing, as you'll see later)

    I decided on that last .258" bushing, as it would allow for a close fit for getting that necked down brass onto a .224" mandrel. Turns out, my K&M ExpandIron only had to open the necked down brass about .001"...nice!

    After truing ID on the .224" mandrel, I checked neck thickness & concentricity. Concentricity was not bad, given all that squeezin', but they did measure .018-9" That's a bit thicker than I'd care to run, so...time for the K&M turner! But first, have to address case length, as all that necked down brass has to go somewhere. Case length increased over .010" from virgin 7SAUM (~2.023--->~2.034") So, a quick trim got them all uniform @ 2.025", and now the shoulder will index true on the neck turner...

    Set the K&M up and got to shavin'!
    I did feel the cutting mandral take a bit of material from inside the neck, and I turned juuuust slightly into the shoulder to keep any potential issue of 'donuts' at bay. Viola, a nice, true .015" neck thickness...

    Final thing, pick a bullet & find a seating depth! Seeing as how those finished cases ended up with nice, long necks, and this is gonna be a fire breathin' dragon, I didn't want to start too long on OAL. Basically, I eyeballed an 80Amax up & went from there. Here's an 80Amax @ 2.770", base of bullet is just above the shoulder, and there's plenty of bearing surface to chase lands. this length isn't set in stone, just wanted to get a baseline 'dummy' round sent out to JGS to get a reamer print worked up...

    Here's what a loaded .220 REDLINE looks like!

    Since this sucker is gonna run right at/beyond the redline of any .224 caliber I'm aware of, the name seemed appropriate ;)

    Loaded round measurement of .254, (.224 + .015 + .015)

    That .252 bushing in the pic above will allow .002 tension upon re-sizing, should work OK for the time being. If this monster shoots & yields intended performance, I can see a set of custom dies in the future...

    So, there ya have it! A .22-7SAUM...aka the .220 REDLINE. For reference, heres the REDLINE next to a 6.5SAUM4s /140JLK...

    That about does it, for now!
    Dummy is off to JGS, I'll await a print to confirm specs, then get a reamer ground! In the meantime, will be impatiently waiting to get this monster throttled up. ~71grains of capacity under a .224 caliber boolit is gonna make some heads spin, I hope!!! Quickload predicts both H1000 & Retumbo to have great potential at modest case pressure...

    Until then, thanks for coming along on this wildcat ride!!! Will keep y'all updated...
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
    sscoyote, 300_whisper, 219DW and 18 others like this.
  2. mikea5232

    mikea5232 Silver $$ Contributor

    Dec 17, 2015
    Can't wait to hear back once you get that breast shooting!
  3. NorCalMikie

    NorCalMikie Gold $$ Contributor

    Dec 2, 2005
    Well done My Man!! :cool::cool:
  4. pacificman


    Feb 14, 2013
    Wow...gonna be a fast ...hard hitting ...rocket...:eek::D:D
  5. Shawnba67

    Shawnba67 Silver $$ Contributor

    Aug 22, 2016
    Was the name .220 red mist taken?
    I like it!
    300_whisper likes this.
  6. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

    Nov 25, 2008
    Rather than 220 Redline I like the 220 Fredline! Anxiously awaiting a range report!
    sscoyote, fredo and snert like this.
  7. Grimstod

    Grimstod Machinist, Designer, and Shooter. Gold $$ Contributor

    Jan 23, 2014
    What about monolithic bullets? They would not fly apart and you could really burn those fast.
  8. A_Gamehog


    Oct 30, 2011
    I like the way you think! sounds like 1,000 shots or less till accuracy goes?
    Kevin Taylor likes this.
  9. 357Mag


    Dec 25, 2006
    Redo -

    Howdy !

    Expansion Ratio:

    While I don't have the " Guns & Ammo 1974 Annual " handy, I'm re-sending an earlier post response I made; that quoted Homer Powley's " Powley Papers ". Please refer below.....

    A velocity figure of 4050 fps from a notional 26" and an expansion ratio of 4, was listed under .224" cal.
    That velocity figure was NOT listed for a specific .224" cal case, such as a .22-250 .

    I can say that an expansion ratio of 4 from a ( this time ) 28" .224" cal barrel would suggest a powder charge of some 72gr, again... based on review of Powley's Expansion Ratio/Calibre/Powder charge chart that was included in the article. The Powley Computer lists charge data using IMR powders as reference.

    An expansion ratio of 4 in a .224" calibre barrel/chambering would certainly qualify any such rifle as
    "over bore" capacity, a term used by Ackley and others.

    Superb job on that brass bending !

    With regards,
  10. Grimstod

    Grimstod Machinist, Designer, and Shooter. Gold $$ Contributor

    Jan 23, 2014
  11. fredo

    fredo Silver $$ Contributor

    Feb 6, 2015
    Thanks for the kind words, gents!
    From whatever I could find on monster overbore, 60+ gr capacity .224s, like the Howell, Vais, Clark, .22-284, .22-6mmAI, .22-06, looks like this .220 REDLINE is going to yield 6-8gr more grains of useable case capacity :eek:

    Hallelujah, AMEN...and pass the RETUMBO!!! QL is tellin' me that it'll take ~65 grains of it for 100% case fill...:D

    Gotta source a 1:9 twist .224 barrel...maybe two of 'em! ;)
    sscoyote, Shoebox and villarreal like this.
  12. jobhopper66

    jobhopper66 Gold $$ Contributor

    Jun 22, 2012
    Great to see a shooter thinking outside the box and not settling for the status quo.
    fredo and MQ1 like this.
  13. cmillard


    Jan 15, 2009
  14. rebel

    rebel Silver $$ Contributor

    May 29, 2016
    Careful, firing that thing could open a wormhole in certain atmospheric conditions.
    Rushty and Shoebox like this.
  15. timeout

    timeout Silver $$ Contributor

    Oct 6, 2011
    Can you say global warming?
  16. nmkid

    nmkid Silver $$ Contributor

    Dec 31, 2014
    As always...Only wildcat cartridges are interesting!!
    219DW and fredo like this.
  17. missed


    Jul 8, 2013
    Hell yeah! I had a 22 Swede for a bit, with a 14" twist. I like the sound of this much better!
  18. Kiwi Greg

    Kiwi Greg

    Jun 3, 2010
    Be sure to try RL33 & RL50 in your beast :)
    MrMajestic likes this.
  19. Shoebox


    Nov 3, 2016
    Fredo's 220 redline laser :eek::cool::cool:
    You will need a bigger scope !!!
    Well done ! Great post ! Thanks !!
  20. 17VLD


    Mar 15, 2006
    I think 1000 yard coyotes are gonna drop like a rock:eek:
    Looking forward to more of this thread.You only live once,glad you are doing this,I'm happy the haters are keeping quiet.Its obvious that you have given this a lot of thought,I hope when you shoot this rifle you get an endless smile:D
    sscoyote, fredo and snert like this.

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