Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by 7Fingers, May 18, 2017.
@XTR Is Varget less of a dirty pig in a .223 than it is in a .308?
Monte, I don't think it's any different, but then again I don't shoot much Varget in my 308.
I just this week went out to re-test my 223 load. I've noticed at a couple of mid range matches that it was shooting too tall, probably close to 0.75MOA. So much so that I put the 223 in the case after the 300 yard line on the last day at the Sinclairs and shot my 308 at 600.
I changed from old early 90s LC brass to the Federal made at Lake City. It looks like I need to drop my charge from 24.5 to 24.2 Varget. I'm going to try it out this weekend at the NH State Championship.
Here is the data from my CFE-223 test. Nothing to write home about.
As a comparison, here are the five best test groups using Varget. MV's not as high, but much better group size and mean radius.:
Thanks Mozilla, this is exactly what I was looking for when trying to decide whether or not to experiment with CFE. Very helpful thank you!
.5gr increments is too large to test with. Looks like it wants to shoot around 25.9 at 2830 fps which is right where accuracy should be according to quickloads and many shooters. My nodes are never more than .2 wide with the 223 and 90's and seating depth node is usually within .003 (.0015 either side of optimal) or groups turn into shot gun patterns at distance.
For the OP, that is a really nice turn out. Looks like you are getting near PPC accuracy with it. Job well done!
Did you find consistency with your varget loads at the 24.1 powder charge? Iirc you were having issues. What did you change?
I did a lot of VLD 90 testing with a 1:7 Twist Shilen Match barrel and then swapped for a 1:6.5 Twist Pac Nor Barrel in hopes that the faster twist would help me find Nirvana with the 90's. I would have been happier if all the groups were crappy; however, some were good but the next 5 round group would be bad. I could shoot a group at 100 yards in the threes', or perhaps even in the one's or twos' and before I had a chance to pat myself on the back I'd shoot a group around 3/4 MOA and sometimes worse than 1 MOA. DANG!
The results with both of the barrels were similar. I shot them in F/TR competition anyway a couple of times, but the scores showed the same problem; i.e. X, 10, 10, X, 7, 10. It was frustrating to say the least. I hate going to a match with a batch of ammo in which I have low confidence. Unfortunately after throating the barrel for the 90's, it doesn't any longer shoot the 80's as well as it used to.
So, for this month's match I'm taking my little Howa 1500 "Fun Gun" shooting Berger 80 VLD's. When my new 1:7 twist barrel arrives, I'll put it on my competition .223 and give the 90's one more try, simply because I have so many of them on hand. But I suspect I'll end up shooting 80's in competition. We only shoot at 600 yards and even though the wind is usually tricky, I had more wins with the 80's than I have had recently with the 90's.
If my new barrel happens to be a laser with the 90's, this thread will be the first to know.
Hope it will be...
My last 2, one cut with the issf reamer and the other with .080 freebore which was eventually throated were easy to tune... 24.7g of varget and .010 in the lands and away we go. My current barrel is a dog though, especially as it heats up. It shows promise then... wham. 8'' of vert at 600.
I was hoping you stumbled across something I missed. I'm out of stuff to blame
When I run the figures on 90 Bergers compared to 80 JLKs, the wind drift number favors the JLK. I initially had trouble with bad groups, but I called Swampy, and he is running them in the lands 10 thou. I did that, and they shoot fine. I get good velocity from H4895 and Lake City cases, which have 31.0 gr of water capacity. Varget works too, just a bit slower, but the drift number doesn't change that much. I have shot them in both 7 & 8 twist barrels, which is an advantage.
In what ballistics program. I run the 90VLD at 2750 vs the JLK 80 at 2900 and the 90VLD shoots inside of it by like 5" at 600 yds in a 10MPH wind.
The Berger 90VLD is about the ultimate manifestation of BC for caliber. Not saying you can get them to shoot but they are hard to improve on.
I won the NH state championship in FTR yesterday with 90VLDs loaded in new brass that I had pulled down 100 previous loads. Reloaded them with out resizing, and used the same bullets that I had pulled after I changed the load.
I had a rough start in lollypop conditions and dropped 4 @ 300 and 3 @ 500. Figured out what I was doing (not the load) Got it sorted. At 600 yds I shot a 200-11 and a 198-10. At 600 yards I had 3 shots of the 40 for record that I can say looked like they had elevation. One was a 12 o'clock mid ring 10, and two were at 8 o'clock just below the X ring. (one was one of the pair of 9s I dropped in the second match)
I'm running the 90s at 2750 over 24.2 gr of Varget in Federal brass, Tula primers, 10 into the lands in a 28" Lilja 3 groove.
FC brass? Whats primer pocket life like?
Don't know yet. I've shot up about 500 new. I'll start reloading them on the next cycle. About 16months ago Midway had them for something like $200/1000 and I grabbed some.
The casehead on LC brass is rumored to be hard as nails. I bought 1000 pcs of virgin 2015 with the intent of using it in the new .223 with 90s so as to get a little longer brass life. Unfortunately, there is a LOT of tiny pieces of brass flashing inside the cases all around the flashhole that I cannot seem to get out, regardless of the numerous tools/methods I've tried. Another member here posted a while back that some of this brass flashing came out during firing and basically welded itself into the lands/grooves and wrecked the barrel. I do not know whether this can actually happen or not...but I wasn't about to find out the hard way, so the LC brass is still sitting in the box.
xtr, I will never buy FC brass again for my .223. had some serious issues with this stuff--it was once fired mil spec brass. needless to say, in starting loads, I would completely pop primers out and lock up my ar. in a string of 10 shots, I had 2 pop out completely and lock it up. all the others were blanked. I stopped and did a little investigation. not only were the pieces of brass all short (only a few of them actually were of length to trim), but these things were HEAVY!!!! as in 98 grains +or-. I switched to LC once fired brass (most of mine is around 91-93 grains prepped) and have never looked back. I will agree, LC brass is some tough stuff
My FC experience almost mirrors cmillard's, thats why I was asking. 2-3 firings max, with sane 223 loads in an AR15.
Everything looks OK on the bag of new 16 head stamped LC brass I have been working on. Can you get a picture of this flashing and post it?
XTR, congratulations on your win. I love it when a .223 beats the .308, although I have almost always shot .308 since the mid-70's. 6mm Remington before that, starting in 1965, and I should go back to it now that there are better bullets. Anyway, I shoot a lot more .223 now, since I love the bump-your-nose-softly recoil. I have won or tied in F/TR at 600 yds with .308 and .223 (no major championships by any means), but it sure is easier to shoot the .223. Keep up the good work.
Shot this yesterday at 600 with the 90's. It's a beautiful thing when you get them running right
job well done!!
Separate names with a comma.