fire forming new brass

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by bgblue1978, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    I have been reading this forum since i started reloading about a year ago but this is my first post. i tried searching on the subject but what i found was about wildcats so i apologize if this basic question has been answered before.

    Up to now my reloading has been with once fired factory cases (mostly federal gold medal) but i picked up some brand new winchester cases because im starting to wear the priner pockets of my brass. i have fl sized, uniformed primer pockets, and deburr flash holes. should i just shoot some generic middle load of a cheap bullet and powder to fire form before i neck turn and start working back to a precision load? This is for a factory savage model 10 in .308

    Thanks
     
  2. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    I MUCH prefer to neck turn on virgin brass. AND if you neck turn, make sure the neck tension is where it is supposed to be, then ANNEAL that brass and run a mandrel back thru it... Then prior to charging / seating use Imperial DRY Neck Lube. Your brass will be as good as if you are on your second firing!
     
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  3. retired

    retired

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    actually not a middle of the road load but closer to a full power load. you
    want to force the brass to fit well in your chamber.
     
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  4. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    I know this isnt a hobby for the "frugal" but it seems wasteful to me to just shoot a box of bullets and powder just to form the brass. is there any information that can be gained during this shooting?
     
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  5. retired

    retired

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    yes you can work up load data, it may not be perfect but will be close and you can fine tune from there.

    powder and bullets is the cost of getting better.

     
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  6. butchlambert

    butchlambert Site $$ Sponsor

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    A waste of money, barrel wear, and time.
     
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  7. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    Ok thanks guys I'll start some preliminary load development with the new cases and the fine tune once they are fire formed.
     
  8. Twicepop

    Twicepop

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    To fireform brass without expending expensive bullets and powder, try the C.O.W. method (Cream of Wheat). In your .308 brass prime, use about 12-14 grains of Unique, and fill the rest of the case up to the neck/shoulder junction with Cream of Wheat, then plug the neck with a piece of toilet paper. Shoot these outdoors and your cases will be fireformed to your chamber. I saw another method of plugging the neck, in this one they used Crisco.
     
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  9. mikeinct

    mikeinct

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    If you are switching brands or lots of brass...Check the weight of the brass you are using, Then check the new stuff..I've found some lots heavier enough to raise pressures...Be safe...Mike in Ct
     
  10. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    Thanks mike, ill start down and work back up on the load ive been using.

    Twicepop, thanks i will try to read up on that more.
     
  11. 50bmg1979

    50bmg1979 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Is there a reason for neck turning with a factory chamber? You might not need this step. I only turn on tight neck custom barrels.
     
  12. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    Probably not needed. i enjoy the reloading process and wanted to see if it added any consistency to my reloading. i thought it might give more consistent neck tension, especially since im not using lapua or norma brass which ive read is more consistent thickness. That and im dead set on out shooting some buddies with my factory 308 so ive been trying to squeeze everything i can out of my reloading. in my short testing so far, possibly a slight decrease in ES but its too early to tell.

    But yes you are correct i could absolutely cut that out and still be accurate enough for my use (mostly prone bipod shooting steel plates out to 1k.)
     
  13. Dans40X

    Dans40X Welder

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    As Butch quoted.
    to add-
    By any procedure,one CAN NOT fire form brass in one firing.
     
  14. Joe R

    Joe R Gold $$ Contributor

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    The Holy Trinity of precision reloading are:
    1. Powder.
    2. Seating depth.
    3. Neck tension.
    The first two are easy to deal with. Neck tension is a tough nut to crack. Neck turning and annealing are important factors that contribute to neck tension. Those apply regardless whether you're shooting a factory rifle or custom built one.

    Joe
     
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  15. 50bmg1979

    50bmg1979 Silver $$ Contributor

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    So are you using neck turning in place of a bushing? Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to figure it out
     
  16. Joe R

    Joe R Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'm not sure I understand your question? You need a bushing whether you turn necks or not. Neck turning is not a substitute for a neck bushing. If it is, its news to me.

    If you have different wall thickness on different sides of the neck, and most cases do, common sense tells that you're not going to have uniform neck tension. So uniforming the neck wall is a good first step to having uniform neck tension. The size of the bushing is also a contributing factor to neck tension. Common sense tells you that if you bushing squeezes the neck to create a .305 inside diameter, you're going to have more tension than a case with a.307 inside neck diameter.

    My friend ShootDots gave you a couple of pearls here:

    You need to think about it them and really chew on them before it all makes sense. Its a process and it takes time to develop a fund of know how. What does he mean when he says: "make sure the neck tension is where it is supposed to be..."? That's a pretty pregnant passage. Think about it? This stuff is simple only to simple minds.

    Kindest regards,

    Joe
     
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  17. 50bmg1979

    50bmg1979 Silver $$ Contributor

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    What I was asking was if you are just turning more of the neck off instead of changing to a different size bushing. But you are talking about turning to uniform the neck and not turning for clearance.
     
  18. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    Yes that's basically it, im turning in hopes of more consistent neck tension shot to shot. getting off topic but i currently use a universal decapping die, an rcbs fl sizing with the expander taken out, and then an expanding mandrel. would there be any benefit to a bushing die? My thought is that if the last thing is the exoanding mandrel going through then it sets neck tension regardless of what squeezed it down correct?

    By the way i love the comment "its simple only to simple minds." feel like ive tried to explain to buddies why handloads are so different and always get the same confused look saying "gold medal match shoots good in all my guns i dont see why you test so many different things.?"
     
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  19. Joe R

    Joe R Gold $$ Contributor

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    bgblue1978,
    IMO you're doing it right by uniforming the necks by turning and then uniforming neck tension with an expander mandrel. By all means put away the expander balls that come with the sizing die, those are nothing but trouble. Controlling neck tension with a bushing is inherently less accurate than a mandrel and I only use bushings for gross sizing, all final neck sizing is done with a mandrel.

    Which mandrel die are you using to size your necks?

    Joe
     
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  20. bgblue1978

    bgblue1978

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    Im using the sinclair expander and mandrel, and the sinclair nt 4000 turning tool with turning mandrel but spinning the case with a cordless impact rather than by hand.
     

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