FFP vs SFP

Discussion in 'Scopes, Optics, LRFs, Spotters, BoreScopes' started by TAJ45, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Other than ranging, are there any advantages?
     
  2. GrocMax

    GrocMax

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    Any holdover or windage stays the same at all optical powers.
     
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  3. msinc

    msinc

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    So does ranging, spotting and targeting with mil-dots.
     
  4. GrocMax

    GrocMax

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    Huh? Change scope power and recalculate everything with SFP MILs or anything else. Change scope power relative size changes between target and reticle, doesn't matter how reticle is graduated. Is only accurate at one power setting. FFP reticle and target stay same relative size all powers.

     
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  5. msinc

    msinc

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    I think I did a bad job of this post....sorry for your confusion. I could not agree more with you. I was referring to FFP only. I will clarify, if you'll permit me....you posted in reference to FFP, "Any holdover or windage stays the same at all optical powers." and I said, "So does ranging, spotting and targeting with mil-dots"{should have added, stay the same at all optical powers when using FFP}
    Does that make better sense??? You shouldn't have to pretend I never mentioned SFP........but it would help, because I did not.
    Your term "optical powers" is a little on the confusing side for me. I think you might be trying to convey "magnification"???? When I hear "optical powers" I am thinking about how much better my Leica or Zeiss scopes let me see in near darkness long after other brands gave up...Haha. Along the same lines, "optical powers" could be referencing how well they emptied my wallet too!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  6. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017 Gold $$ Contributor

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    One potential advantage of sfp if you have a high magnification target scope with a small dot reticle or thin cross hair is that the reticle is always the perfect size. Cheaper ffp scopes sometimes have a reticle that's too small to see well at the lowest power or is too fat and takes up too much target at high magnification.
     
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  7. msinc

    msinc

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    Exactly....maybe another way of saying it is that prairie dogs/ground squirrels and FFP scopes might not be a good combination.
     
  8. GrocMax

    GrocMax

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    Yes, the one drawback of any FFP is balancing reticle subtension size in the magnification ranges you shoot in, you can get too small of a subtension at lower powers for a given target. There's always a compromise.
     
  9. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017 Gold $$ Contributor

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    March does this well with their ffp reticles. The 3-24 has thick lines for hunting at 3 power and you can't even see a dot. But then at 24 power a tiny dot in the center becomes visible for target shooting and the thick lines go off to the side out of the way. Pretty neat design.
     
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  10. JBT

    JBT Gold $$ Contributor

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    Agreed. March 5-40x56 FFP does it the same.
     
  11. SageRatSafaris

    SageRatSafaris

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    I disagree. FFP works great for varmint hunting. Varmints often don't give you time to twist turrets, reticle holds are fast. I do A LOT of ground squirrel hunting (sage rats in south-central Oregon), and I strongly prefer FFP tree reticles for the ability to quickly range and hold in just a moment or two. Because I mostly use rimfire on ground squirrels, holds can be of significant importance. For ground squirrels, a 4-14X FFP tree reticle is the sweet spot, IMO.
     
  12. msinc

    msinc

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    I disagree...when did you read the word "varmint" in my post????? If it works for you then good on ya. Personally, I prefer to see the crosshairs on something, not obliterating it. "Rimfire on ground squirrels".....no wonder it works for you, you are shooting close range. Back on out to 400 yards and see how much of that ground squirrel is not covered by the reticle. I use mine for varmints, woodchucks at 400 yards are almost covered.
     
  13. dig

    dig

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    The big advantage of SFP is cost, cost less to manufacture ergo less to purchase. You can get some pretty good glass at a decent price with SFP. Other than that, what others said, sighting in, ranging, quick shooting! Shooting in low light when most game is taken (thicker cross hairs) advantage FFP.
     
  14. CoyoteTan

    CoyoteTan Silver $$ Contributor

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    Another big advantage of SFP is quick target acquisition, in most of hunting situation you only have a couple of seconds to put crosshair on a animal, a FFP at lower power becomes almost useless because the crosshair is so thin and small that you can't see it, not to mention the brush/tree in the background, most of FFP is not suitable to hunting.

    Of course like everything else, there are some exceptions, like varmint hunting or long range hunting, a FFP scope could work if you can afford it.
     
  15. JRS

    JRS Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'll take the FFP on a hunting scope any day. images.png
     
  16. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

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    Me to, pretty much any field shooting situation including the "prs lite" matches I shoot. Without ffp you are pretty much screwed trying to make windage holds in a timely manner.
     
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  17. SageRatSafaris

    SageRatSafaris

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    I guess I consider ground squirrels and prairie dogs to be varmint hunting. FFP reticles don't really "cover" targets at high magnification - they stay the same size relative to the target regardless of magnification. If anything, the typical FFP is too thin at low magnification because they're generally optimized for high magnification. Woodchucks at 400 still involves adjusting for drop - you can dial it or hold it. With FFP, you can hold it no matter what magnification you're at - great for quick shots. For most FFP reticles, the Achilles' Heel of FFP is low magnification, not high magnification. Most deer hunters prefer SFP because it provides a great sight picture at low magnification, but FFP is definitely popular with long range varminters, both rimfire and centerfire.
     
  18. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Very enlightening, Gents. Many thanks.
     
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  19. NZVarminter

    NZVarminter

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    ffp reticle desing has come a long way in the past couple of yrs.

    PST II 5-25 FFP reticle is 0.12 moa at 25x
    Zeiss V4 6-24 SFP at 24x is 0.14
    most SFT fine varmint reticles are 0.12-0.14 moa

    So the new FFP are same thickness at high power as most fine SFP reticles, however the FFP reticles are exactly same thickness at low power, and 0.12moa at 5x is pretty fine. So fine that for me with an astigmatism, I can barely see it. If you have good eyesight probably no prob, but for me I'm going back to SFP because of my astigmatism. Also for me I like a clean reticle with minimal clutter and obvious single aim point so I dial for drop so constant holdover is not a problem.
     
  20. hawkeyeshoooer

    hawkeyeshoooer

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    All my scopes have been SFP, where the reticle remains constant throughout the zoom. However, there does seem to be a place for FFP, at close to moderate ranges with low powered scopes. I can imagine a 2-7X scope with an illuminated horseshoe reticle and a fine crosshairs inside the horseshoe. For short ranges at 2X, the horseshoe is suited for fast double taps (6.8 SPC of course), while at longer ranges at 7X the horseshoe expands and reveals the little crosshairs, perhaps with some subtended markers for holdovers or Kentucky windage.
     
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