expander button

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Paddyd, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Webster

    Webster

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    Don't understand. Expanding with the expander adds tension. It's the movement of the brass not when it's done. Expanding 2 thou with an expander then then expanding 2 thou with the bullet cold works the brass the same amount as expanding the neck 4 thou with a bullet. Tension is from the total movement of the brass not when it's done.
     
  2. cw308

    cw308

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    Web
    Total amount of expansion is .004 when the case goes up into the die but when the case is lowered and the ball goes through the neck it expands the case back out .002 , as a example with 308 and the expander ball OD is .306 your left with . 002 neck tension . My setup with the standard F/L die and expander ball , nothing fancy is .003 . Has been working well for me .
     
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  3. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    This. Just leave the button out. There's less friction with the expander ball if you lube the case necks with something like Imperial wax. Unless you are using a fragile seat die like the Redding competition die, why not just let the bullet [esp a boattail] be your expander? For the most part the extra neck tension doesn't matter all that much IMO.
     
  4. Steve Ladino

    Steve Ladino Silver $$ Contributor

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    This technique will likely result in damage to the bullets from the seater plug due to the force required to seat the bullet.
     
  5. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    Not really, can't even tell the difference.
     
  6. cw308

    cw308

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    I'm with Steve L using the bullet as the expander can also damage the bullet . Antelope , that thin air up in those hills makes you do funny things , just be careful .
     
  7. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Bullet as an expander makes Zero sense .

    [​IMG]
     
  8. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    Here is a pic of a .25-06 case sized with no expander with a 6.5 mm flat base bullet seated. If you can find damage on that bullet I must be legally blind.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    You're going to expand [work] the neck either way so does it really matter if you use a bullet, a mandrel or one of the various shaped buttons for the job?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    L.Sherm likes this.
  10. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Steel,simple as that.
     
  11. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Can you see inside ? Can't teach those not willing to learn,sadly.
     
  12. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    Carbide for me.
     
  13. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    I pulled it afterwards and nothing out of the ordinary. I did it just to show that it could be done. Maybe one day I'll load some and shoot them.
     
  14. 47WillysGuy

    47WillysGuy

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    Please post a picture of the pulled bullet. I have had case necks push copper off the bullet that showed and have pulled bullets that were damaged but didn’t show.
     
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  15. murray brook

    murray brook Silver $$ Contributor

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    One of the effects I've found that when you use the bullet to expand the neck more than .003 is the run-out becomes hard to keep under control.JME
     
  16. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    I'll seat a couple more. Deburring case the mouth/s will will prevent any scraping. For hunting bullets. it's no big deal IMO.
     
  17. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Sounds like you got it figured out
     
  18. cw308

    cw308

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    Once the case neck is sized back down , lets say .004 without the ball , now using the ball it opens the I Don't of the neck .002 . The neck tension is different , less stress on seating and less neck tension . Using bushing dies is a different ball game , you can adjust neck tension . I'm talking standard full size and neck sizing dies . The guys that are into neck turning and adding heat are trying everything possible to tighten up there groups and in some cases just adding another variable . I try to keep things simple use the tool as it is designed to work . Maybe brass shouldn't be used 25 times , barrels loose there accuracy after a certain amount of rounds , sure they'll shoot but how accurate . I use to use the same cases for one season , this year I'm using 3 different brands in rotation to see any difference in accuracy with less firings . Full sizing every time with the expander ball minimum case headspace . So far so good .
     
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  19. antelopedundee

    antelopedundee

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    Here it is. First off electricity went out I apologize for any poor pics. I don't really have any .25-06 cases readily available that are new and not messed with. So I took the first pictured case and FL sized it in a .25-06 die with no expander.


    The second pic is the bullet 6.5mm Hornady interlock seated with an identical bullet for comparison.

    The third pic is the bullet pulled. As you can see no damage done.

    For chits n giggles I loaded 5 similar cases with 51.5 grains IMR4831 Rem 9 1/2 primer and a Sierra 130 grain GameChanger bullet so maybe Monday morning I'll see how they do. So if you turn your necks chances are that you would have pretty good results sizing without an expander and just seating on top of that. There is an administrator over at accuratereloading.com doing a test of neck tension vs accuracy.


    [​IMG]

    second pic

    [​IMG]

    third picture

    [​IMG]
     
  20. 47WillysGuy

    47WillysGuy

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    Seeing is believing. Going to try a different tacked on my loads. Thank you!
     

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