Copper reducing agent powder

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Ironworker, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Ironworker

    Ironworker

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    Few new powders out there claim they reduce copper in bbls ,how do they do that ?
     
  2. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Never heard that
     
  3. Hntndad

    Hntndad

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    I believe he's asking about Imr enduron powders Dusty.
    "Enduron™ Technology features a built in copper fouling eliminator, insensitivity to temperature extremes, small sized grains for easy flow with an ideal loading density, and there are no ingredients considered harmful to the environment."
     
  4. JohnKielly

    JohnKielly Australia, not Austria

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    Is it extracted from the fat of legless reptiles?
     
  5. CJ6

    CJ6

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    CFE 223 and Pistol I believe..But I haven't tried them yet.
     
  6. waldo1979

    waldo1979

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    I've tried CFE223. It's a lackluster spherical that carbon fowls like crazy. No copper buildup though =P
     
  7. impalacustom

    impalacustom

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    From my understanding they incorporate zinc in them somehow. I have quite a bit of CFE but haven't gone out to shoot it yet.
     
  8. jimbo88mm

    jimbo88mm

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    I've been using IMR 4451 in my 260, 30-06 Savage Axis and a bunch of milsurps. 4451 is one of the newer enduran powders that includes a copper reducer. It works well.
     
  9. STS

    STS

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    Did they quit making Sweets?
     
  10. Ironworker

    Ironworker

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    Do snakes ever go on diets ?
     
  11. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    I found cfe223 very dirty.
     
  12. Toolbreaker

    Toolbreaker Gold $$ Contributor

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    You're right, it is very dirty...sooty. I barely get a hint of copper when cleaning after it, though.
     
  13. KevinThomas

    KevinThomas

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    Actually, this is nothing new, and the knowledge has been around for at least a century now. The incorporation of this into smokeless powder for small arms is a relatively new concept. The French had used this in their artillery and it proved highly beneficial in reducing copper fouling. In practice, a strip of tin foil was placed into the shell along with the powder charge. Upon firing, the tin amalgamated with the copper fouling left by the shell's driving band, and prevented it from depositing itself on the bore surface. With small arms powders, I suspect that the means to incorporate it into the propellant was the limiting factor. Apparently, they've cracked the code and figured out how to get the anti-coppering agent into the powder.
     
  14. shoot4fun

    shoot4fun Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have tried CFE223 and personally didn't find enough pluses to get me enthusiastic. As mentioned above I found it to be overly dirty and with Bartliens or Kriegers who really needs to worry about copper.
    Now on to the IMR Endurons. I give IMR4451 a big A+ so far. Testing in my AIAW with 7MM08 barrel it has given me very low SD/ES and seems to be no more dirty that the H4350 I was using. It also has shown to be very temperature change resistant as SD has not varied across the 45 degree extremes (if you can it that) that I tested under so far.
     
  15. amlevin

    amlevin

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    It's the "dirt" that keeps the carbon from sticking to the bore. One just has to decide which is the bigger problem, copper or soot.

    I have used CFE223 in both .223 and .308 loads. Does yield speed that often is hard to get with other traditional powders but that's in MY rifle.
     
  16. mr45man

    mr45man Gold $$ Contributor

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    Breathing in Zinc can't be good for you.
     
  17. impalacustom

    impalacustom

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    No more so than lead.
     
  18. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    No, but they should. Ammonia. "Do not leave in the bore longer than 15 minutes!"
     
  19. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Best write-up I've read on CFE was in the Hodgdon Annual Reloading Guide 2012. Whatever is in it combines with the molten copper and it all flies out the barrel, or words to the effect. CFE, for most of the cartridges Hodgdon publish data for, and for most bullet weights, produces top velocity. It does burn dirty, but ordinary carbon fouling is a lot easier to remove, and less deleterious to accuracy, than copper fouling. And in my testing CFE in 223 Rem, can be very accurate.

    Having said that, the newer IMR Enduron line seem to be cleaner-burning, plus they tout temperature insensitivity. I have some IMR 4166 which I got from a friend, but haven't tried it yet. I'd like to try 4451 but the problem where I live is availability. CFE is fairly easy to source locally, but the Enduron powders are nearly unobtainable.
     
  20. DocBII

    DocBII

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    I have a buddy using brass bullets in his .45 1911 and the CFE pistol. It would foul and lose accuracy in about 25 rounds with his standard powder. CFE reduced the fouling enough for him to shoot 50-100 rounds without problems. It would turn the muzzle end of the pistol gold, though.

    HTH,
    DocBII
     

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