Chambering question

Discussion in 'Advanced Gunsmithing & Engineering' started by jsthntn247, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Please no bashing on this. I just have a simple question as I am not a gunsmith and would like to figure out what's happened to know where to go from here. I have a friend that got a Remington chambered on one of the (trued) Ptg actions with one piece bolt they sale. We measured the gap between the bolt handle and back of action (primary extraction) before sending it off and it measured .010 and was making good contact with the ramp on the back of the action upon extracting a case. After getting it back the gap now measures .026. The smith said he had to take a little extra off the lugs and abutments to get enough clearance for the handle because it was wanting to bind on the back of the action. However now that the barrel is on, there is no forward and backward movement of the handle when it's down in battery like it should be if there was adequate bolt nose recess clearance. Is it possible that he had the bolt nose too tight with the back of the barrel and cut extra off the action lugs and bolt lugs to get "clearance" and now my friend is left with little to no primary extraction and a bolt nose that is possible touching the back of the barrel? Again, not trying to bash anybody, this seems like what has happened and the only plausible explanation I can come up with.
     
  2. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Unfortunately, anything is possible. Fortunately, we rarely find that things are that goofed up.

    You can check the bolt nose clearance by putting a small piece of lead wire on the bolt nose and closing the action. Do some searching on this site, and you'll find pictures and instructions on how to do it.

    If you still have concerns, I'd suggest having it evaluated by one of the excellent gunsmith members of this site.
     
  3. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Also remember that you can only check things with the firing pin removed.
     
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  4. Ggmac

    Ggmac

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    If you don't have lead wire , you can go to a parts store ( auto ) and ask for plasti- gauge , it's used to measure engine bearing clearance .
     
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  5. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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    He's talking about primary extraction clearance between the front of the bolt handle and the bolt handle recess. Having to open it up .026" sounds hinky to me. Generally less is more to an extent. Sounds like you just lost all your primary extraction. Have someone you trust check it out.
     
  6. Ggmac

    Ggmac

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    Yes but he's measured that , I thought it was a question of bolt nose clearance , where he says he can no longer move the bolt forward when in battery .
    Sounds like no matter what , he needs professional help , either resting the one piece bolt ( good luck ) or the smith takes it apart to check and buy him a new bolt .
     
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  7. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Help me out here. How much money do you have wrapped up in this bastard action? A decent custom can be had for around $950.
     
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  8. ridgeway

    ridgeway Silver $$ Contributor

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    Handle needs removed and tig welded back on in proper location.
     
  9. Ggmac

    Ggmac

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    Yes but he said it was a one piece , so it's not as easy as it could have been . Not hard , just not as easy . You know what I mean . I don't think he should take it back to the same smith . When will they learn .
     
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  10. shortgrass

    shortgrass

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    Probably never.
     
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  11. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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    It sounds like his old gunsmith could screw up one of those too, LOL.
     
  12. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    Sounds to me like your "gunsmith" modified your bolt rather than making his barrel fit your action and in the process screwed up the timing on your nice bolt.

    I recently bought one of these 1 piece bolts for a remington and indeed, the timing was the best part of the upgrade. To lose this is very disappointing.

    It is good that you measured the timing gap before sending it off. I would contact the smith, tell him he owes you a new bolt, and then have another smith install it.

    If your measurement of .010 before you shipped it off was correct, then the only binding possible was on the nose of the barrel. My guess is he has a CNC program for remington and used it without taking specific dimensions for your action, installed the barrel, found it binding, and machined the bolt because it was easier than taking the barrel back out and machining it.

    --Jerry
     
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  13. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    PTG is selling those actions for $675. Show me your good $950 action. --Jerry
     
  14. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Pierce, Stiller, Curtis are in that neighborhood. I'd take any one of them before shelling out $675 and it's still a Remington. This issue has been beaten to death. Custom, trued, blueprinted, whatever you want to call them, it's still a Remington. And guess what? Here we have one of those vaulted "blueprinted" ones with issues. Do we ever see threads with problems with the customs? I can't remember any. But Remingtons? Plenty. Buy once and cry once. It's a proven method.
     
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  15. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    Haven't had good luck with stiller. Still haven't seen any of them offered for $950.

    I point this out because the biggest weakness in the trued remington action is the timing The PTG bolt fixes this nicely. I consider getting this upgrade as offered a deal. This action is available with a .062" firing pin so bushing is not needed--most custom actions don't offer this option. Still needs a side bolt release, which I install.

    --Jerry
     
  16. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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  17. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    First, I wont speak for why or what your smith did. He may have had a good reason for doing it who knows. Assuming your measuring things right with a stripped bolt, gap between the handle and action does not tell you anything other than how much gap there is there. You are concerned about primary extraction and you should be measuring that. The clocking of the handle on the bolt is far more important than the gap in front of it. If .016" made the difference between a reliable action and one thats not you were way too close to begin with. Not being able to push the bolt forward shows a lack on nose or lug clearance to the barrel. Obviously there is enough to operate the bolt, there may be only a few thousandths there. You best bet is to measure it with a dial mag base dial indicator mounted on the action. Something seems a little odd here but I think you need to have someone look at it before making any assumptions.
     
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  18. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    And you can get an excellent quality Atlas action for $1000. The best one in that price range IMO. And its the only rem clone with a trigger hanger which I love.
     
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  19. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Jerry,

    The Stiller and Pierce action firing pins are .065/.066 with a good fit, no bushing required. Forget how many are needed to buy for a reduced price from Stiller but Pierce starts at 935 and I've never found the scope mounting holes to be off center like a Remington or Savage. As you said, the bolt release is additional cost and so is the M16 or Sako style extractor. Add in the fluted bolt and you're up over 700 plus labor to install. Unless you work for ten bucks an hour, add in 100 plus for labor. Another 150 and you have a custom with resale value. A deal can be different things to different people. The PTGs to me aren't a deal. YMMV
    Hog
     
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  20. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I put a clear piece o
    The clocking of the action is good, just irks me that it has that big of a gap there now when it shouldn't have. I measured with feeler gauges and the firing pin assembly out so I know what it was and what it is. He will have enough PE since this is a 223. This is one of the actions PTG was selling for $380 with a fluted one piece bolt, bolt handle, and a rail. A 1 piece bolt with all the guts cost that much so he's got allot less in it than a custom and plenty good for what it will be used for. We got the plastigauge and checked it and there is no clearance on the bolt nose and I'm not sure about the tenon and the lugs, will have to check on that with the barrel off.
     
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