Discussion in 'Gear Talk: What to Buy? and Gear Evaluations' started by itchyTF, May 22, 2019.
J&B will take it out
Im not sure how Boretech C4 wouldn't take it out. Ive cleaned brakes with a huge carbon buildup with that stuff. Let the brake sit in it over night. Come back in the morning and it will all wipe off with a q tip. doesn't hurt cerakote. could plug the muzzle, point the barrel down, and fill it up with c4. I guarantee all carbon will come out the next morning. would be way less abrasive than your other options.
C4 is like using cherry Kool Aid on the carbon I am trying to deal with. The two barrels have corks in the muzzle now, soaking with penetrating oil for a week.
Yesterday, I took a newish remington 700 SS in 308 out and shot around 60 rounds though it with IMR 4064, came home, cleaned with 4 wet patches of Montana Extreme solvent and a new bronze bristle brush of 10 strokes back and forth. Bore scope said 98% of all carbon is gone.
It is a guess at this point that R#15 may have been the super cooker in these two 308 barrels that are soaking now, the jury is still out.
Have you tried CLR? Its chemical composition is different than gun cleaners and it might offer a different, effective approach.
When People started talking about it, I bought some. My kitchen sink is SS. I put a dab on the sink, and it etched the steel in two hours. Wife was not happy.
I use the VFG Cleaner felts and rod end in my 22 LR S&W 41 as well as my Anschutz 1416. They work great... one place to get them is.... www.buffaloarms.com/gun-cleaning-supplies/vfg-weapons-care and your favorite bore cleaner.
Throwing my 2 cents in, using automotive carb/throttle body cleaner may not work as the cleaners are designed to attacked the petroleum base that the vaporized carbon sticks to during combustion.
Although if you run out of options; GM Top Engine cleaner (original formula non-environmentally or human safe) or BG 406 are the only two professional automotive grade carbon cleaners that I have first hand experience with that just plain eat carbon.
But I have not used either to clean a firearm.
The best article I have ever read on this subject:
It is my believe that the black stuff referred to as "carbon" is actually an collection of baked on almost all non-carbon powder and primer residues. If the black stuff was carbon it would be extremely difficult to dissolve, and stuff used to do this would harm a barrel. Commercial bore cleaners would not touch the carbon. Instead, various bore cleaners use relatively cheap industrial chemicals that either attack and dissolve copper fouling and the metal components in the black crud - copper, lead, antimony, tin or bind (chelating agents) with these components facilitating their removal. Some bore cleaners use chemicals to retard evaporation. The chemical action of solvents on the black crud facilitates the scouring or scrubbing action of a tight fitting bore and results in mechanical removal of the black crud. Stubborn remnants, yield to abrasive cleaners like JB. Stainless steel is not entirely stainless and can be subjected to surface reactions.
Upon combustion the nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine are converted to almost entirely gaseous components, like CO2, Nitrogen, Oxygen, and steam. The presence of impurities like sodium bi carb or calcium carbonate have no effect on the mole (just a number) multipliers on each side of the reaction (it goes bang - it does not produce carbon fouling or create carbon compounds other than gasses like carbon dioxide. The nitrocellulose impurities are miniscule, like remnants of unwashed sodium bi carb to neutralize the acid used to make the powder but other stuff is added to powder as deterrents, flash control, and stabilizers and calcium carbonate is added to retard acid action during ball powder storage (less than 1 %). Tiny amount of graphite, to lube up powder grains and disperse static and carbon black are added to avoid translucent powder grains. Some solvents contain a chemical that dissolves nitrocellulose but that is not "carbon"
I saw comments regarding the inability of various agents to remove the black stuff - this may be expected as the reactions with black gunk are time dependent. I have now started to warm my barrels so they are warm to the touch with a hair dryer (watch for sparks & propane propellant- warm then squirt) while chemicals are working inside the barrel and thus speeding up the reaction also give them time to work. Some old chemist guy, Arhenius (sp?) established chemical and other reactions were pushed by temp increases. Squirt the solvent stuff into a hot barrel at the range.
I use a commercial foam cleaner, 0-20W synthetic detergent motor oil, and nice tight fitting nylon brushes (cleaned with Isopropyl alcohol after each use) and JB or an equivalent abrasive bore cleaner. After a good warm solvent soak, the JB goes on the brush to scrub, then brush is cleaned with Isopropyl, then dipped in 0-20W to float out the JB stuff and black crud then a clean oiled brush followed with flannel patches. Wipe off cleaning rod with paper towels after every removal. Copious quantities of black crud are produced.
Steam would sure loosen and float away carbon in cylinder heads. My thinking: engine top cleaners would attack any stuff binding carbon particles but would not dissolve the carbon. But petroleum base fuel combustion is not like the nitrocellulose combustion process.
I have little more than zippo knowledge of chemistry having studied it some 58 years ago. My method works for me, nice groups, often 3 in one hole - everybody is free to pick and choose.
I have had great success in removing carbon from heavily fouled barrels with an overnight soaking of Kroil followed by a bronze brush scrubbing - followed by another overnight soaking followed by a bronze brush scrubbing. On heavily carboned barrels it has taken as many as three applications to get it all out but it did come out eventually.
I do use Kroil to remove carbon as a regular step in my cleaning regimen, to remove carbon - I have verified its removal by borescope.
I have not tried it myself but my brother who has been a mechanic for over 40 years swears by Seafoam to remove carbon fouling. He says any engine that he has ever torn down that used Seafoam reguarly is carbon free. It may be worth a try for you.
Just tossing out ideas for you - your mileage may vary.
Simple fix. Most shooters on this forum know the answer.
Short stroke the throat and the first 8 or 10 inches of the barrel with a patch wrapped around a parker hale jag or bronze brush. Dampen the patch with your favorite solvent, i like C4, and coat it.with a light coat of losso or jb. Short stroke back and forth 10 or 20 strokes. Patch it out.with a patch soaked in solvent and take a look with your favorite borescope. Repeat if necessary.
Wouldn't the graphite coating cause a carbon buildup?
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