Can someone help

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by wildfowler, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. wildfowler

    wildfowler Silver $$ Contributor

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    07AE9309-15BE-4A8C-987F-9C7EB85EC0A3.jpeg I am not into competition shooting in any form. I just like to shoot stuff and want to continually improve my ability.

    I have had no training and have no understanding of what proper form is.

    I’ve been working on being more consistent with my shooting process and form and am becoming frustrated.

    My rifle is a 308 Remington 700, with a 20” varmint taper barrel. I know it’s not as long and heavy as what most of you are shooting.

    I’m shooting off of a bald eagle rest that I recently purchased. Currently I’m still using the rear bag that came with an inexpensive Caldwell bag set.

    This rear bag is a little short for the bald eagle and I have ordered a taller protektor rear bag. Until the new bag arrives I’ve been using a small block under the bag as a spacer to get the rear bag a little taller.

    Here’s my question:

    I can’t seem to control how all my rifle returns to the rest in the exact same position after being fired and I believe this is affecting my point of impact. When I shoot, the rifle does not slide parallel straight back in the rest like I’ve seen described here by other shooters. My rifle tends to jump.

    Sometimes the rifle falls back into place better than other times but I generally find myself shifting everything around trying to get it lined up again, and often times I am adjusting the height of the bald eagle front rest with the big wheel to raise or lower the rest.

    Unless something else is going on it seems like when I have to make what I am describing as a major adjustment to get the rifle re-settled and lined back up on the target causes a substantial shift in my point of impact.

    Is this correct that my being inconsistent on returning my rifle to the firing position can cause sizable shifts in the point of impact?

    I’m including a picture of a target I shot yesterday at 100 yards to show an example of what I’m talking about. My first five shots the rifle seemed to return to the ready position without requiring any major adjustment.

    Shot number six I wound up having to adjust the wheel to get lined back up with the spot on the target where I was aiming and I believe this is what was responsible for the 1 inch shift in point of impact?

    I don’t understand how if I am aiming at the same spot on the target yet I had to adjust something on the rest differently can result in such a dramatic shift? Is that really possible?

    If this is possible, do I need to bear down on the rifle and try and hold it more firmly in position while shooting?

    Thanks.
     
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  2. SmittyJon

    SmittyJon Silver $$ Contributor

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    With a factory rifle in .308, I'd suggest several things. First, use a 3" "accuracy assist" plate on the fore end in a 3" bench rest type bag. Also, use a lighter bullet (125, 130 grain) to cut down on the recoil-caused displacement (also called "upset") you're getting in your set-up. If the front rest is moving around, put some weight on it, like a bag of shot. And, a larger rear bag filled with "heavy sand," like a Protecktor DR, will eliminate rear bag movement.

    Holding on to the rifle consistently without cheeking, palming, thumbing, etc., is tough to do. Maybe just use a moderate hold and try not to push or pull it, flinch, or bump it with your shoulder.

    Good luck.

    Chris Mitchell
     
  3. TAJ45

    TAJ45 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Know this up front: I am very new to the bench game....VERY new. The following is more of what I've read or have been occasionally coached.

    1) I dont think "bearing down" is a path to trod. Too much variability.
    2) No mention of wind flags. Wind is pure physics and can not be discounted, ever.
    3) No mention of trigger, quality of break or wgt.
    4) Actuate trigger with thumb behind guard and finger placed normally - pinch them together.. This helps keep the pull straight back - if wgt is in lbs, not ounces.
    5) Do not have forearm against stop. Pull just a smidge off of stop after return to battery.
    6) No mention of your reloading skills. Mine are in their infancy, precision wise.
    7) Do you have a Lyman bore scope? How clean is your bbl ACTUALLY?
    8) Many 30 BR shooters speak of recoil. This w bullet wgt under 120gr......most bodies dont like the "lick" that's coming.
    9) Do you always shoot "through the shot" ?

    Just some extremely rudimentary musings from a talent challenged br wannabe. Fun, ain't it? :)
     
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  4. Texas10

    Texas10 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I've got a Savage BVSS with a Shilen .308, 26 in barrel that shoots quite well from a Caldwell rest and Protector rear bag, but that stock is heavy, wide and made for that type shooting. If you are trying to shoot bench rest style with a lightweight field stock you are already at a disadvantage. You can do it as long as you're not dissatisfied with the fliers you'll get in your target.

    If you love to build and tinker, as I do, get a stock from Richards Microfit and finish it out to fit YOU. You'll learn a lot, have great fun building it, and have something to be proud of in the end, not to mention shoot better. I have a 308 built for the field, and one for shooting off the bench. Like you, I'm not a competition shooter, but I do have fun making small groups of holes in paper.
     
  5. MGYSGT

    MGYSGT Silver $$ Contributor

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    If the front rest has a 3" wide space to rest the rifle, you will get a lot of movement in a light .308 rifle. My wife made me a soft bag (2 levi pockets sewn together and filled with kitty litter or dry peas) to set into the space and then put my rifle on the bag. It sinks down into it and helps a bunch. Learn to adjust your point of aim by squeezing the rear bag. By the way, that's the only thing Levi is good for anymore.
     
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  6. ToddKS

    ToddKS Gold $$ Contributor

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    I would try a hard hold if you are going to shoot this rifle off a rest. Getting that hold consistent will be the challenge.
     
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  7. wildfowler

    wildfowler Silver $$ Contributor

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    No wind flags because the grass is very tall due to prolonged high water that I can not mow. When this target was shot the wind “forecast” showed 5mph. According to the grass and what I felt the wind was very light.

    I don’t know how to answer reloading skill. Using my hornady loaded round runout tool, runout rarely exceeds 1000th. I’m loading with a Sinclair/Wilson die and take great care to on the neck to minimize seating force.

    Ive tried Berger VLD 168 hunting. And Berger hybrid 168 hunting. Sierra 168 MK and 155 MK. And lastly, I’ve tried hornday 165 SST that I hog hunt with in my AR-10. One box of federal gold medal 168 resulted in about the same level of accuracy. I have a box of 175 MK but have not loaded any yet.

    Bix/Andy trigger set wherever it was in the package. (Very light)

    Rifle is in a manners stock that’s fairly heavy.

    I have no borescope. The barrel is a Krieger 5r that “looks” like it cleans up really well. I purchased barrel new and sent my receiver to Krieger and let them chamber it. 11 twist. The receiver is one of the PTG “blueprinted” receivers they had on sale a couple of years ago and was discussed here.

    I got no “blue” at all recently when I decided to use bore tech copper cleaning chemical on it.

    I do follow through when I shoot. My definition of this is to keep trigger depressed until I hear the see or hear the impact.

    I also will dry fire and generally try to dry fire a time or two before begin shooting.

    During a dry firing session, the crosshairs on the scope do move a little. I would estimate the amount of movement I see may correspond to 1/2” on the target?

    I’m not the kind of person who thinks they can do no wrong, just trying to understand if my shooting technique can be causing this issue? I really don’t have a technique and want to know if having to handle the rifle each time and possibly “getting behind” it differently each time can cause this? Versus looking somewhere else.

    When I see several shots go into the same hole. Generally it’s 2-4 out of 5 when it happens. This makes me think the rifle is capable of this level of accuracy and it’s me that’s causing the problem? Or something about my equipment?

    I know this may sound crazy but here goes. With my AR-10, which has a thermal scope, off the same rest, using the my same shooting technique, I have no problem matching and actually exceeding the accuracy of this bolt action I’m asking about.

    The scope that’s on the bolt action is the same scope that I used for initial load development on the AR. And I have checked/torqued all the fasteners twice. Burris 4x14 power.

    My intention for this rifle is to use for fun at some private property where I have an 1100 yard lane I set up shoot steel. As soon as I feel confident in this rifle I plan on starting at 400 or so. Also, downed a couple deer with it this past season and have used it from my truck to dispatch some random nuisance animals.

    Once I learned how to shoot a little farther, I have big plans to get something in the 6mm variety to help at that maximum distance.

    Thanks.
     
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  8. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    You didnt put your actual location in but id suggest finding a br shooter close and pick da brain
     
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  9. Uthink Uknow

    Uthink Uknow Gold $$ Contributor

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    Mis’sippi is what he said.
     
  10. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    Definitely need to find someone near you to meet up with. There are way too many variables here to diagnose over the internet.

    With a 308 of your description, I would hold the rifle.
     
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  11. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Oh yea. Thats the place
     
  12. wildfowler

    wildfowler Silver $$ Contributor

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    That’s right, Mississippi. Specifically between Belzoni and Tchula.


    Sometimes I have a hard time putting thoughts to words concisely.

    I think my question could be boiled down to the following:

    Do variations in shooting technique cause variations in points of impact?

    Thanks for your consideration.
     
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  13. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes they do- very much so
     
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  14. wbm

    wbm

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    Yep.
     
  15. wildfowler

    wildfowler Silver $$ Contributor

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    OK.

    One of the things I’ve read here repeatedly that I’ve filed away for future reference is to not let your shoulder or any part of your body touch the rear bag.

    So what happens when you touch the rear bag? Does that dampen or affect the harmonics throughout the gun? Optimum barrel time?

    Earlier I mentioned that when I practice dry firing at the range, while looking through the scope I can perceive a slight jump off of the target bull’s-eye. Has the bullet left the barrel before that movement would have affected it’s flight path to target?

    Thanks.
     
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  16. Riesel

    Riesel Gold $$ Contributor

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    I, personally, don't think you're doing all that bad, since you're kind of fighting an up hill battle with a short stick. I see three three shot groups that are at an inch or better, not bad at all for a shooter with what you have. If I'm working with a situation like yours, I make every effort to put everything back in battery as it was before. Marking the stock with tape for the back of the front rest and rear bag. Settle the rifle in tight and attempt to hold it the same each time. Tough to do unless you really think about it. Make sure the rifle is level! get a scope level on it if possible, they're inexpensive and can be found at Amazon. Practice and be aware of your breathing. Press the trigger consistently and above all, don't do like I tend to do and try to "will" the bullet to be in the same hole. it won't work. I'm giving you a pat on the back and thumbs up for working at it.

    Best Regards,
    Robert
     
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  17. JMayo

    JMayo

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    You're having fun that's the point.
    If you want bench rest grouping you'll need to get bench rest equipment.
    But you can still work on your hold, trigger pull, poa and improve your abilities.
    I'm from Mississippi also ! South of Jackson, Star MS. I miss the farm and shooting off the back porch :/
    But I do enjoy a 100, 600 & 1k competitions that is here in NC I didn't have there.
     
  18. Uthink Uknow

    Uthink Uknow Gold $$ Contributor

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    The key word in your question is “variations”. It’s a good chance if you do everything exactly the same every shot, your target will look better.
    Dick Weber ended up in the bowling hall of fame and he did everything “wrong”. His shoulders weren’t parallel to the foul line, his elbow was bent on delivery, but he did it exactly the same every roll.
     
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  19. wildfowler

    wildfowler Silver $$ Contributor

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    I’m having fun and I am blessed to be able to pull trigger very regularly. Daily if so choosing.

    Just needed to ask some questions. Just wanted to talk about proper technique since I’ve had no formal teaching on the subject.

    The fact that my issue seems inconsistent makes me think it’s human error/inexperience rather than something mechanical. Some days my groups are better than others.

    I know wind is an issue, and I have put flagging tape out before. I honestly wouldn’t know what to do with wind readings anyway.

    I try and limit my shooting times to when wind conditions are light or at least when the wind is steady. I try my best to not shoot under gusty or variable winds.

    Thank you.
     
  20. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE- Thread Derail Crew Gold $$ Contributor

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    If you put some flags out at least youll know that the wind is the same so if it throws a shot youll know why, and most importantly they will tell you whats coming so you can stop
     

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