Borden TPE ?

Discussion in '6PPC, 6-6.5x47, 6XC, 6 Rem, 243' started by Mikemci, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. Mikemci

    Mikemci

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    116
    I just bought a 6ppc benchrest rifle online. It has a Borden TPE action and I can't find any information on this action. Can some of you experts shed some light on this for me. I'm familiar with Borden, but what is the "TPE"designation fefering to?
    Thanks, Mike
     
  2. Mikemci

    Mikemci

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    116
    Alex, thanks for your response. Do you know what the TPE stands for, by chance?
     
  3. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,798
    Toilet paper engineer.
     
    Mikemci likes this.
  4. Mikemci

    Mikemci

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    116
    AWESOME!!!! That will be my excuse for crappy groups.
     
    nmkid likes this.
  5. P1ZombieKiller

    P1ZombieKiller Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    He isn't lying.... One of his competitors said that's what he was making... so Jim embraced it, and made the "TPE".
     
    effendude, Mikemci and swd like this.
  6. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,320
    Jim Borden once worked as an engineer (Engineering Section Leader) for Proctor and Gamble, who among many other brands own Charmin (toilet tissue).

    Some year back, Jim had told some of his gunsmithing customers that there was a bolt clearance issue with Panda Actions that required some remediation. Naturally George Kelbly took exception to this. On one occasion when they were discussing this on the phone, George told Jim that he was nothing but a toilet paper engineer. About that time Nesica Bay was making one of the better lines of stainless actions, including those designed for benchrest. Jim had them make some under his label with the model name of TPE undoubtedly to toss that back at George.

    Those actions were the first that featured what were called Borden Bumps. The bolt bodies were not truly round so that there was more clearance when the bolt action was in the open position than when it was closed. I believe that that is still a feature of Borden actions. If I got any of this wrong, please correct me, it is all from a second hand source a long time back. My memory is far from perfect.

    Since then, I believe that Kelbly's have tightened up their bolt clearances. Their actions continue to do well for all purposes, as do the Borden actions.
     
  7. Hal

    Hal

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    750
    Thanks Boyd, I knew what TPE stood for, but not the rest of the story.

    Hal
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  8. kvd

    kvd Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    193
    That is a great story Boyd - thanks for sharing it. I'm partial to Borden actions but haven't been in the game long enough to have ever come across a Borden "TPE" action. Now, if I see one for sale, I'll know to snatch it up with a smile.

    Ken
     
  9. JimPag

    JimPag Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    766
    That's the jist of the story Boyd. Jim went to meet George on Christmas eve to go over some spec changing of the Panda actions. Jim was buying 75+ Panda's a year from George. He wanted a smaller firing pin hole, a longer firing pin tip and the Borden bumps. George turned to Jim and said, "you know nothing about firearms as your nothing more than a toilet paper engineer". Well that was the end of him buying Panda actions. Jim told me during Christmas dinner with the whole family at George's home, George told the story to the family and Jim Kelbly called up Jim and apologized for what his dad said to him. It wasn't such a great Christmas dinner at the Kelby's residence that year I was told. Kind of a funny story.
     
    Cakes, Mikemci and Ggmac like this.
  10. Eddie Harren

    Eddie Harren Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,410

    "And now you know, the rest of the story". Paul Harvey
     
    P1ZombieKiller likes this.
  11. JimPag

    JimPag Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    766
    "Better than the funny papers". Eddie Harren.
     
    swd likes this.
  12. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,320
    Thanks for the correction/additional information. Both Jim Borden and George have been very kind to me with regard to their time on the phone helping me understand finer points. This little bit of history belongs to the past, and was told primarily for entertainment value, not as criticism.
     
  13. 6and7mm

    6and7mm Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Messages:
    175
    Just a quick "add to", the Borden TPE parts and footprint are interchangeable with the Nesika J models. The Borden TPE and Nesika J models were king in their day. I still have them, and use them, with great success. IMHO very few actions could truly be called "better". Some, yes, but very, very few. Just keep 'em clean!
     
    Mikemci likes this.
  14. Kurz

    Kurz

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    532
    I always enjoy reading the recounting of so many stories which most of us were not privy to. These stories add to the richness of our short history and serve as a good distraction from the harder edged realities that we deal with on a daily basis.

    Thank you, gentlemen!
     
    swd likes this.
  15. James A. Kelbly

    James A. Kelbly

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    Jim Pag


    Sorry your way off base as Jim Borden did not come here to discuss action changes. That was done on the phone and yes my father told Jim Borden he was just a toilet paper engineer. And no I never called Jim Borden back and apologized, my father is his own man and I do not need to apologize for anything he has done. And Christmas dinner was just fine and normal.


    Jim continued to buy the Panda actions and was modifying the bolts to have the Borden bump. Well I called him up and told him he now was liable for all Panda's that he redid to the Borden bumps and if we had to replace the bolt handle and the shims he put on the bolts came off that we would not replace them. Jim decided at this point to stop buying the Panda actions. I can guarantee you this is now it happened.


    Also we are still running our actions with the same tolerances that Jim Borden won all those Hall of Fame points with his Stolle Panda actions, as have 75% of the current Benchrest Hall of Famers have used to earn points. We have loosened up the tolerances on the Atlas Tactical actions as they were too tight for playing in the dirt and grime, but that was just a few years ago and only on the Atlas Tactical actions.


    Jim Borden and I remain friends and there is plenty of business for all of us. And I have always got a good laugh at Jim using TPE for the action model name. It shows to me that Jim took it personal and went out to prove to my father he was more than just a Toilet Paper Engineer, and his products prove that. What can I say their almost as good as a Kelbly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Now Boyd you know the real story


    Jim Kelbly
     
  16. Hal

    Hal

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    750
    JK
    Thanks for setting the record straight. Kelby's has a great product, backed by even better service. Thank you.

    Hal
     
    kneedtospeed likes this.
  17. JRS

    JRS Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,210
    quote-Paul-Harvey-now-you-know-the-rest-of-the-169307.png
     
    Hal likes this.
  18. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,320
    Thanks Jim. I appreciate you taking the time to make the corrections.
    Boyd
     
    villarreal likes this.
  19. Eddie Harren

    Eddie Harren Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,410
    Jim Kelbly is a class act!
     
    JasonPeterson likes this.
  20. JimPag

    JimPag Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    766
    Well Jim. This is exactly word for word what Borden told me on Facebook when I asked him to explain the TPE deal. And I quote " I went to meet with George to go over changes to Panda actions to be made for me (smaller FP hole, longer FP tip, Borden bumps on bolt, timed ignition.) He told me I knew nothing about firearms as I was nothing more than a toilet paper engineer and did not know shit about guns. I was buying 75+ Panda's a year. That was the end of that." I said wow that's quite a story. If you were buying that many Pandas a year, George should have swallowed his pride. I know I would have. LOL! Then he replied, " well he was a bit out and about then, it was Christmas eve when he said that to me. On Christmas day I got a call from Jim saying George shared what he said with the family at Christmas dinner. Jim told him how many actions I was buying and I guess the rest of the dinner didn't go well. Word for word on my FB private message conversation. So either he's way off base or you are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017

Share This Page