Bolt Closure.

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by onelastshot, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    The smith who built the rifle is the logical one to ask for help. If there is some reason not to ask him, then he shouldn't be the smith for your next rifle. --Jerry
     
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  2. Webster

    Webster

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    If rechambering a fired empty case is not a problem but a loaded round is difficult there should be only one possible problem. COAL is too long. Why would you chamber a hunting rifle to a tight chamber?
     
  3. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    It wasn't my idea, the smith took it upon himself to make a lot of these decisions. I only found out after the fact.
     
  4. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    He's retired.
     
  5. geraldgee

    geraldgee Silver $$ Contributor

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    First - going forward- use only unprimed, uncharged dummy loads until you determine the cause of your problem. Do you have the expertise to remove the firing pin assembly? Safety should be your primary concern, yours and others near your work area!

    If you can get resized brass to cycle freely and easily - your shoulder bump and case length should be in line with the chamber size. Resize and test cycle 5 pieces of brass - if they cycle correctly - you can assume that your bullet seating process is FUBARed.

    If indeed you determine that seating is causing your problems, back the seating die out a full turn, and turn the seating die stem down to compensate. You can distort both/either the neck or the shoulder with a improperly set seating die.

    I didn't read (I may of missed it) whether or not factory ammo cycles correctly. Does factory ammo cycle? (This is where removing the firing pin is crucial).

    If you can't get resized brass or factory ammo to cycle through - stop and find a competent gunsmith.

    Good luck and please be safe.
     
  6. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Theres a good chance its not a tight chamber. If you chamber to saami minimum specs it quite common to run into dies that will not set the should back enough to chamber. I don't know why this is so common, but its a die problem. I have found this to be very bad on the new nosler cases. Anyhow, its an easy fix. I would like to see some before and after sized headspace numbers off the brass with a shoulder comparator.
     
  7. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    As mentioned...You may have your seating die turned down too far and causing a buckle in the case. It can be subtle to the new reloader and not noticed.

    As far as reattaching the bolt handle with JB Weld.....I would not let a Democrat do that;).
     
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  8. ireload2

    ireload2

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    Have him un-retire. He still owes you for a good chamber or lessons on how to load for it.

     
  9. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    There are common overlaps between SAAMI minimum chamber and SAAMI maximum brass specs. Both can be within spec but not work with one another. I agree that a die should be capable of sizing brass down enough to fit in any SAAMI chamber but then you have the stacking of tolerances between dies and shellholders. Of course, the easy fix is to take a few thou from the bottom of the die or the top of the shellholder. I assume the die companies do what their lawyers will let them do. I also assume that if the die produces a piece of brass that is within SAAMI specs, which may well be bigger than minimum SAAMI chamber specs, they'd consider the die "good".
    Not sure why SAAMI has this overlap but you can see it in their chamber and cartridge specs.

    As an example, the 270WSM min chamber hs dimension is 1.726" and the max brass length, measured to the same datum point is 1.730".

    Then there are hs gauge tolerances, which are seldom the issue. The gunsmith work also has some tolerance..hopefully. He may have had "perfect" headspace gauge protrusion from the barrel, but when tightened to the action, you can expect .001-.0015" compression of the joint, reducing hs.

    There again, the gunsmith may well have done everything exactly right and you can end up with this scenario. I wouldn't blame the smith until I had someone verify all critical dimensions of his work.

    If he's a good smith, he'll know these things and can explain them to the op.

    --Mike Ezell
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  10. Webster

    Webster

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    I had to re-seat bullets below posted maximums to get the bolt to close.

    Sounds like you solved the problem. You loaded the rounds to some published COAL and you said you wanted them long. You need to determine the touch distance for your rifle and the 150 gr bullet then back off a little so when you extract a loaded round the bullet doesn't stick in the bore. If you can easily close the bolt on a fired case you don't need to bump the shoulder. You already have clearance.

    Go to YOUTUBE and search for bolt timing. It's a job for a gunsmith to attach a bolt handle. Some gunsmiths may not silver solder. A silver solder joint should be strong enough that the handle couldn't be pounded off.
     
  11. Ringostar

    Ringostar

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    Have you loaded and fired rounds out of this prior? When you say it's a tight chamber, do you know what the chamber neck diameter is? I find it hard to believe that long seated bullets could cause you to break the bolt handle off. However if it's a tight neck, and haven't turned your brass down for clearance. Your loaded rounds could be to tight for your chamber neck.
     
  12. sdean

    sdean

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    I had the same problem. My reamer didn't cut the neck dia. it was supposed to. See if a bullet will go into a fired unsized piece of brass by hand.
    That will tell you something about your neck clearance.
     
  13. Someoldguy

    Someoldguy

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    It would seem you are making an inordinate number of excuses why you can not contact the gunsmith who did the work on this rifle. Do you not have a working relationship with this person, or what exactly is the issue with speaking with him/her? The gunsmith who built the rifle is your greatest potential source for pertinent information, unless this 'gunsmith' is known by yourself to be an unreliable information source. If THIS is the case, you'd better find someone competent to speak with forthwith or your situation will only further deteriorate.
     
  14. cdparker

    cdparker Silver $$ Contributor

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    Regarding your bolt handle, A couple ideas occurred to me. In the old days, the gunsmiths in the RTE shop would undercut the still attached bolt handle on the 700 and give it a couple of spots of TIG so that it doesn't come off an inopportune time. The best TIG welder that I know is Dan Armstrong--above. That being said, If you look at the video of building the ultimate Sheep rifle by the Remington Custom Shop. https://www.remington.com/custom-shop/blog
    You will see where they drill and pin the bolt handle to the bolt body. PM with Dan and get his advice. You may consider sending it to the Remington people in Sturgis, SD. It's the old Dakota rifle shop. Properly attaching a bolt handle is a very critical dimension. As an aside, I have a guide buddy who had a client who had the bolt handle on his m700 come detached when he needed to take the second shot at a Brown Bear. My friend did get to use his M-70 in .416 as a backup.
    HTH
     
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  15. fguffey

    fguffey

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    I will assume you fired the cases before you sized them. I measure before and again after firing; I understand that is confusing to most but if I measure the case length from the shoulder to the case head and I measure the diameter of the case and then chamber I know the length and diameter of the case that will allow the bolt to close. Your cases will not chamber after sizing or your cases will not chamber after loading? Many reloaders have problem with seating bullets, I back the seating die off to prevent the die from crimping the case while the bullet is being seated. There is something about seating a bullet and crimping while the bullet is being seated that is a bad habit.

    There is something about upsetting the shoulder/case body juncture that should prove to the reloader it is impossible to move the shoulder back when sizing a case and or bumping again, reloaders claim they can move the shoulder back and they claim they can bump the shoulder back but they can not seat a bullet and crimp without upsetting the case shoulder/case body juncture, a reminder, the seating die does not have case body support.

    F. Guffey
     
  16. ireload2

    ireload2

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    Not all seating dies have a built in crimp shoulder so you can use the seater to bump the shoulder back. Take a look at the Lee Dead Length Bullet seater or the old Bair dies and older Pacific Dies...
    You CAN bump the shoulder back with a seating die....

     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  17. MN50Shooter

    MN50Shooter

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    Just throwing this out, but do you turn your necks? Given the "tight chamber" you need to assure your necks, are not interfering when loaded with a projectile. This could add to the issue of the bolt sticking closed, because when loading, you get the advantage of the bolt "camming" for loading, but no camming action (advantage) during opening of the bolt.
     
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