big money on ations...

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by madderg, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. madderg

    madderg Site $$ Contributor

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    This past 6 months I have built 2 fine rifles...one on a Savage target action, one on a top of the line custom action. Both barrels are Kreigers, and both chambers are cut with the same reamer. both have custom stocks I made. both are in 30 BR. After many trips to the range I can tell you that the Savage shots as good or better than the custom action. No one was more surprised then I was. The ammo was exactly the same, as was the preps and all powder was weighed with the same loads and bullets...This does not say that custom actions are not great, just that Savage actions are right there with them..who would have thought??It's nice to know that you can spent half the money and get the same result, except that the custom action is so tight that ANYTHING getting into it will lock the bolt. I will update as this progresses.
     
  2. A j shooter

    A j shooter Shoot often Site $$ Contributor

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    I have two savage target action one in 6br with a hart barrel & one in 308 with a Kreiger they shoot great. They out shoot me.
     
  3. lal357

    lal357 Site $$ Contributor

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    what bolt did you use ptg ? i've been thinking about tightening my 110's up some (going to leave my pta alone it gtg)
     
  4. zfastmalibu

    zfastmalibu Site $$ Contributor

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    No doubt those savages will shoot. For me the benefits of a custom are, speed, resale, and pride of ownership. No Savage can run them like a smooth dual port. I know of a guy who has had a very nice LR BR Savage that he has been trying to sell for at least a year. I sold my custom in 5 days. I enjoy shooting a bat much more than a Savage. Also you cant set that trigger very light or the bolt has to be closed very slow or the trigger will trip. But if I wanted to put a prairie dog gun together I would go Savage for sure due to the durability. JMO
     
  5. madderg

    madderg Site $$ Contributor

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    The only thing I changed on the bolt was the handle, and got a kit with a small ball bearing to smooth up the bolt throw..also the bench rest acu-trigger is good, no slop or wiggle. As far as resale, if I like it so much why would I want to sell it?? Bat is a great action, but did you ever get any burned residue from the extracted case in the lug area? If you did I bet the bolt seized...and my Savage is a dual port also.
     
  6. IA_shooter

    IA_shooter Site $$ Contributor

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    As a newbie to building a LR precision rifle I was amazed at the cost of some of the actions available out there and I've always been a Savage guy, for over 15 years anyway, so I ended up going with a new Savage Varmint Action that has the 1.5# accutrigger at a cost of aprox $450 for my build instead of some of the more expensive, custom actions in the $750-$1000 range that I'm not sure I could have even gotten right away.

    I can't tell you if that was a good decision yet or not but I've seen more than a few posts like this one that tell me that I'll probably be glad I saved that other $300-$500 for other things that I'm getting to help me get up and going in this new found hobby of LR shooting.

    If I take a liking to this hobby and spend more than a few years doing it I may end up with a custom action at some point but I'll always remember the availability and affordability the Savage action has offered me for my 1st ever build. :)

    Trevor
     
  7. drags

    drags

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    Maddreg, what custom action are you comparing the savage to?
    Drags
     
  8. dansig

    dansig only here to get better at what I do :) Site $$ Contributor

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    so I assume you developed the loads in the Savage ?

    even if that load works in the Savage it might not work in the other rifle..

    do another load development in the custom rifle and see if it starts shooting better...
     
  9. 6brmrshtr

    6brmrshtr Wes Cummings Site $$ Contributor

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    I have a Panda and it has been everything from a 6.5x 284 to now a 6 Dasher. I recently put together a Savage Target Dual port 6 Dasher with Krieger bbl, and Elisio Stock. It is now my favorite gun to shoot at MR. Very Accurate and a joy to shoot. I still use the Panda for LR, but the next purchase of an action will likely be a Savage or Remington. JMHO
     
  10. markr

    markr Site $$ Contributor

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    I have always suspected that the finest custom actions were a horrible ripoff. I need to send this thread to all my BR buddies so they can start saving a lot of money as well! Not much wait time either!............... 8)
     
  11. Cold Bore

    Cold Bore

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    While I'm not a full-blown custom guy (I haven't made it past trued up M700s, 40-Xs, and Shilen DGA), I gotta agree. I shoot for fun, and love to snipe long range groundhogs, not shoot any formal competition. I hear lots of good things about the Savages, but just can NOT warm up to their looks.

    I've seen some good deals on a few Savages, but just can't see myself owning one. Might be shooting myself in the foot, but that's the view from here...
     
  12. BoydAllen

    BoydAllen Site $$ Contributor

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    I think that discussions about action performance require some qualification as to how well the fellow who has made the comparison is shooting. Outside of competition smallest group produced tends to be the standard, while in formal group competition averages of groups shot on the same day, and on consecutive days are used to determine winners. It is true that someone who is not shooting formal matches, may not see much advantage in accuracy when comparing the accuracy of a blueprinted factory acton, or one that is sufficiently straight in the first place, when comparing it to a custom action, but there are many other parts to doing well in competition, and if these are not optimized, the difference could well be lost in the noise. I seldom see non competition shooters practicing over a set of wind flags, and while I have seen some amazing groups shot by my friends who do not do the whole benchrest thing, their results vary quite a bit from day to day. They are not as consistent as the performance that a well tuned custom actioned rifle, shot and tuned as in competition produces, day in and day out. It may be that if they shot and tuned as a competitive shooter does, that they would, but this has yet to be determined.
     
  13. madderg

    madderg Site $$ Contributor

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    I would rather not mention the name of the action maker for obvious reasons, but it has all the bells and whistles including a Jewel trigger. And I worked up loads for each gun, and they both really liker the same load in the end... Jeff Fowler's 117gr bullets HBN coated with 36grs. of Benchmark.
     
  14. CanusLatransSnpr

    CanusLatransSnpr

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    I too shoot a couple of Savage actioned guns, both with aftermarket barrels, and I love the ease of putting a Savage together on my own without the added expense of bringing of gunsmith into the equation! However, I'm not a competition shooter either so the "necessity" isn't there for topnotch equipment and a smith with the best track record of building comp. rifles. Sometimes the "reason" behind the expenditure of large sums of money on a custom action is just for peace of mind! One less thing to trouble shoot with a rifle, especially in a competition forum! Someday I would love to own a custom action/barrel/trigger/stocked rifle to shoot varmints! Why some would ask? Just because that's what I want and it's my money so who is anyone to say?

    Mike
     
  15. broncman

    broncman

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    Anybody know the lock time of a Savage vs some of the customs?

    If a savage is true...boltface, lugs, tighter bolt, then what makes it different from a custom action? Besides looks, lock time, and ease of bolt lift after being fired...and price?

    I have no idea what the lock time is on a savage..
     
  16. zfastmalibu

    zfastmalibu Site $$ Contributor

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    Guys will always try to defend their action of choice. You cant set a accu-trigger to 2 oz. and once to get even close the trigger trips. You cant run the bolt fast on a savage when the trigger is set light without it tripping. I have made lift kits for the savages. It helps, but not much.
    If you buy a br action with .002'' clearance on the bolt do you expect it to cycle with grit on the bolt? I am not overly anal with my actions and have not seized one yet, and I live in sandy Fl.
    I suspect the differences in your two guns is the barrels.
     
  17. Lazydays

    Lazydays

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    actually I would have thought they'd be close but the custom might be a slight bit better. The Savage action is cut on a state of the art CNC lathe just like the custom action now is. What working range window Savage uses is their own secret of course. I've never checked a PTA action to see how square they are, but have checked several of their 112 and 12 series actions in the past, and rarely does one come in with a compound error of over .002". Looking at the length your cutting and assuming the lathe is aligned correctly, I'd think that with a small change in the machining process they could get that error down to less than .001". I saw an article once of a tour thru one of the major custom action maker's shop. Wasn't slightly impressed with his choice of equipment, but he was turning out some nice stuff for a salty price tag. Had he bought better equipment, I think he could have turned out actions with a compound error in the .0005" range. But also reaching the point of deminishing returns. Something like a Hardingh CNC lathe with the X1 & X2 axis with live tooling, and the motorized tail stock would easilly give you and action under .001". That lathe would cut everything but the slots in about four or five minutes, and still be in the one thousandth of an inch range. I've seen those lathes cut Thompson rod and hold a five tenths window all day long. If you can do that, cutting something soft like an action would be a piece of cake.
    gary
     
  18. Ing. Michael W. Mayerl

    Ing. Michael W. Mayerl

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    I`m also a big fan of the Savage Target actions that can be used to make a perfekt target or single shot hunting rifle. I also like the safety and the AccuTrigger, that makes this action much safer than any other.
    The only improvement should be a trigger that could be safe adjusted to 2-3 oz.
    And I hope that Savage start to make a bigger target action for 338 Lapua and 408 too. ;)
     
  19. Lazydays

    Lazydays

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    If you have an idea about true machine time, you know you took it in the south end. But it's the same way with race car engine blocks. They maybe have an hour and a half of true machine time in them, and the castings are not that much.
    gary
     
  20. Lazydays

    Lazydays

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    what barrel twist did you go with, if I may ask you? I've always wanted to build a 30BR rifle for score and coydog work.
    gary
     

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