Applied Ballistics Pro Support Thread

Discussion in 'ELR, Ballistics & Bullets Board' started by DocUSMCRetired, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    Have a question, or need help trouble shooting? Ask away!

    Just please be specific as to what you are having problems with. AB Tactical, AB Google Play, AB iOS (Apple), Kestrel Companion, AB Profile Loader, Kestrel Boot Loader (Firmware Updating), AB Analytics or anything else. Feel free to ask, and I will try to help you solve the issue, or find someone who can.

    A complete Resource for Applied Ballistics can be found here: www.abmediaresources.com. This website contains user guides, articles, software, firmware, links, and highly valuable information. Most of what is covered here, can be found at the Resource page.

    Understanding Ballsitics Software and the Solvers behind them:

    When considering which Ballistics Program to choose, always make sure you understand whats behind the GUI (Face), what makes up that program, for that here is Bryan Litz to explain it: www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC102_HowBallisticsProgramsWork.pdf

    Understand the difference between the Litz Curves or AB Custom curves and someone saying they use Bryan Litz Coefficients or numbers. When you look at software and they say they use the Bryan Litz Coefficient they are taking that BC number and entering it in as G7. As opposed to Applied Ballistics where we use the actual Ballistic Curve developed through the full time Ballistics Lab. So while other apps and companies use G1 and G7. Applied ballistics uses G1, G7, and AB Custom. Which brings me to another point. Would you rather have a modified G7 BC, or would you rather have the Actual Curve developed through the lab? Litz Curves are only on Applied Ballistics Platforms.

    Another thing to understand. Applied Ballistics has a full time Ballistics Lab constantly testing, updating, and providing the latest information. This means you are getting the backing of an incredibly accurate and up to date system. A proven system which other companies try meet. We are all avid shooters, and have years of experience behind us. When you report something to us, we don’t just look at it, and find a copy/paste response. I will actually input it, and test it. Giving you the best possible answer from the re-creation of the problem. I have even gone to the range, to try to re-create things before.

    Applied ballistics is, a Platform. While other companies offer the app and sometime the occasional device. Applied Ballistics is a complete platform. Offering systems on Android, PC, iOS, PC Analytic Software, IBEAM, ABEAM, REM, Wind Sensor Array, Tripod Weather Vane System for Kestrel, Raptor-S, Training Material, Full Time Lab, Full Time Support Staff, just to name a few. All that are inter-connective. This means that you are getting a system, not just an app. A Platform with integration in to multiple proven systems, all which can talk with each other. Devices that mount to a weapon, mount to an optic, and can talk with each other, in real time, giving you the best possible firing solution in real time.

    Reference Websites Resources:

    Applied Ballistics Resource Page: Home Page | Applied Ballistics Resources

    Applied Ballistics Main Page: Home Page | Applied Ballistics, LLC

    Nvisti Main Page: nVisti, LLC

    Accuracy 1st Development Group: Accuracy 1st

    Kestrel Meters: Rowing Sports Equipment | Weather Environmental Meters| Rugged Megaphones | Nielsen-Kellerman

    Ballistics Calculator(or Create Range Card): Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC

    App User Guides:
    App User Guides in PDF form can be found and downloaded from this website: www.abmediaresources.com

    AB Mobile Detailed User Guide: AB Mobile User Guide

    AB Analytics User Guide: AB Analytics User Guide

    AB Tactical Users Guide: AB Tactical User Guide

    nVisti (Kestrel) Companion Pro: Companion Pro User Guide

    Kestrel LiNK Ballistics: Kestrel LiNK Ballistics

    Kestrel LiNK: Kestrel LiNK

    Kestrel User Guides:

    Kestrel User Guides can be found and downloaded from this website: www.abmediaresources.com

    Ballistics Calculator Use Articles:

    How Ballistics Programs Work: How Ballistics Programs Work

    Tall Target Test: Tall Target Test

    Ballistic Calibration: Ballistic Calibration

    Bullet Pointing: Bullet Pointing

    Educational Resources:

    The Applied Ballistics Library is a comprehensive resource covering a wide spectrum of information. This library totals 4 books that cover multiple subjects. Bryan Litz is a highly respected industry leader and ballistician. He has not only worked with development for the military, but he is the Chief Ballistician at Berger Bullets. It is highly recommended you read all of them, as each one has its own purpose and valuable information: http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=57

    The Accuracy 1st Long Range Made Easy video series was made with Todd Hodnett and Bryan Litz. These videos are comprehensive and cover topics from picking out equipment, to technic and fundamentals. Todd Hodnett has been teaching the military for over a decade and is a well-respected, and known go to instructor when you want the best. If you are looking for high quality training, Accuracy 1st is second to none. These videos can be found for sale here: https://www.accuracy1stdg.com/store/catDetail.cfm?catID=49

    Important Articles:

    Over the years Applied Ballistics has provided highly valuable articles. This is a short list of some of the important articles we recommend users read:

    How Ballistics Programs Work, Practical Ballistics, BC Testing, Understanding Winds Influence, Epicyclic Swerve, Gyroscopic Spin Drift and Coriolis Effect, Understanding Long Range Bullets Part 1 & 2, Maximum Effective Range of Small Arms, Extending the Maximum Effective Range of Small Arms, Whats Wrong with the 30 Cal, Chronograph Performance Review, Magazine COAL, Getting the Best Precision from Bullets, Using Weapon Employment Zone Analysis, WEZ Analysis, Effects of COAL Part 1 & 2, Twist Rate Calculator, just to name a few. To find these articles and more visit www.abmediaresources.com

    Firmware, Updates, Profile Loader:

    On our Resource Website: www.abmediaresources.com you will find the Firmware updater (Bootloader) and the Profile Loader(Create Weapons and Bullet Profiles and Load them on to a Kestrel via PC. Includes ALL Custom Curves, is free with the purchase of a Kestrel). Current Versions:

    Kestrel 5700: 1.02
    Kestrel 4500: 4.93
    Profile Loader: 0045 – Library 533

    Links to the different software:

    AB Tactical: To inquire about AB Tactical please email us directly

    AB Analytics: AB Analytics Package - Free "Accuracy and Precision" Book

    Applied Ballistics Android : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appliedballisticsllc.appliedballistics&hl=en

    Applied Ballistics iOS : https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/applied-ballistics/id785619104?mt=8

    Kestrel LiNK Ballistics Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nkhome.link.ballistics

    Kestrel LiNK Ballistics iOS: Coming Soon!

    nVisti Companion Pro : : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nvisti.companion.pro

    Kestrel Companion : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ab.kestrelcompanion&hl=en

    For links to other applications please visit our Resource Site: www.abmediaresources.com

    Calibrating, and Common Ballistics Calculator Mistakes:
    This is the single most item I cannot stress enough. Please take the time to read the Ballistic Calibration Article listed Ballistic Calibration PDF. The calibration phase. A lot of times when answering help questions I get an “I am .2 off” type question. I ask in return for your data so that I may enter it in and try it in a real world application. BTW that’s the kind of support you get with us, I don’t just look at something and feed you a copy paste response. I go out and try it! What I find when I see those numbers is you haven’t calibrated to your full potential. This step is absolutely critical in getting a perfect firing solution. I am going to give you a short list of things YOU MUST DO, in order to get a good firing solution.

    1) Tall Target Test. What this shows: If The Scope is Level, Turrets True Adjustments, Use of a Level, and Zero Offset and Zero Height. Some tools to have at your disposal: 100 foot tape measure, Normal Tape Measure, Carpenters Level, Scope Level, Tools.

    A) First thing you do is make your target. Here is our guide to using one http://www.abmediaresources.com/talltarget.pdf This system works for both MOA and Mils.

    B) When you set up your target use a level. Do Not Eyeball it. The bullet is going to fall in line with gravity. If your Target is not in line with gravity your bullet will be pulled off center and you won’t know it.

    C) Measure your zero range. You know that range you love to go to, are the targets exactly 100 yards? I have found more often than not they are not. Targets get beat up, weather ravaged, and replaced all the time. They are not always a perfect 100 yards. You know that 1% error your Laser Range Finder says in the specs. It’s real. And it does make a difference. So hand measure your targets range. Know the exact distance of your zero. Note: it’s not as critical to know the exact zero distance when you’re simply zeroing your scope at ‘about’ 100 yards, but when you’re measuring the scope movement, it’s critical to know the exact range.

    D) Get your Actual Click Value. You do this by firing your group, and measuring them. That scope you just bought, might have a slight variance in click values. That variation will become more significant over distance, and becomes the difference between a hit and a miss. This goes for both Windage and Elevation.

    E) Zero Offset. You know that scope you have that only does .25 MOA clicks. Well you just shot a group that’s 1/10th of an inch high and right. But you can’t adjust for it so you accept this as your zero. This is the wrong answer. You can adjust for this in the software. Make sure you do it!

    F) It’s important to understand what you are trying to do and why. This section is designed to insure that your scope is calibrated and in line with the weapon, and the trajectory of the round. If your scope is not tracking vertically when you make adjustments, simply adjust your optics, and level to correct for this. The Tall Target Test will tell you this information. You need your vertical movements to track perpendicular to gravity.

    G) If you’re using a hold over reticle, you’ll simply hold the adjustment (10 MILS or 30 MOA for example) rather than dial it. The same principal and math applies; you’re trying to see how much actual movement your optic produces in response to your intended adjustment.

    2) Things you don’t need. (Barrel Length, Zero Atmospheric Conditions on a 100 yard zero, Scope Taper).

    A) Barrel Length effects muzzle velocity. So we ask for your Muzzle Velocity because this is the factor we need. Barrel Length is not necessary.

    B) The weather at the time of your 100 yard zero. This will not significantly effect your firing solution, so we don’t ask for it. Now at 500 yards yes, it will. But for a short range zero it’s not a factor.

    C) Scope Taper, What effect does my 20 MOA Rail have? None. So you don’t need to input this, and there is no place to do so.

    3) Where is the muzzle velocity at, or My bullet data doesn’t have the muzzle velocity.

    A) You are correct it doesn’t include the MV. That is specific to each weapon. We cannot guess what your weapons muzzle velocity is going to be, so we don’t try to. Without the correct input here, your firing solution will always be wrong.

    B) Muzzle Velocity Variation. MV (Muzzle Velocity) does not refer to extreme spread as measured by a chronograph. We all work with our hand loads to reduce this as much as possible, but muzzle velocity will vary. How we account for this is by measuring it at different temps. In simple terms chemistry effects your muzzle velocity based on the temperature at the time you fire (powder temp). So if its 45 degrees when you zero, and its 90 degrees when you shoot. The powder burns at different rates giving you a different MV. Please do not neglect this factor.

    C) If you have nothing better to go by, you can start with the MV on the Ammo Box, but be ready to change it based on actual shooting. I do not recommend using the manufacturers stated velocity. This number can vary greatly from your weapons true MV.

    D) MV Measurements can by nature be “finicky”. As a rule a chronograph with less than 2” spacing between sensors cannot accurately resolve MV within +/- 10 fps. To learn more about this, reference Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting by Bryan Litz. Understanding the limitations of a Chronograph can greatly help with this. The pros and cons of each type.

    E) Chronograph distance from the barrel of rifle. A bullet will typically lose 5-10fps from the muzzle to the chronograph placed about 20 feet in front of the rifle.

    4) Atmospheric inputs have historically been the least understood and caused the most trouble for shooters running ballistics programs, in particular the pressure inputs. The following discussion elaborates on the correct way to manage these variables. This helps to cover Barometric Pressure vs Altitude, and how to use them correctly.

    A) Basically there are two options for describing pressure to a ballistics program; 1) Enter the barometric pressure and altitude, or 2) Enter the station pressure where you are. Some definitions are in order regarding barometric vs station pressure. Barometric pressure is also known as seal level corrected pressure. This is what the weather station and airports report because it’s useful for making weather assessments. Barometric pressure is not the actual air pressure where you are, rather it’s a number that’s corrected to sea level. In order to determine the actual air pressure where you are (which is what is important to the Ballistics Calculator), you have to account for the effects of altitude. If you have Kestrel, you can measure Station Pressure directly which is actual air pressure where you are. This is the preferred method because it’s one less input and relies on only one measurement instead of two. A common error is to mistake Station Pressure for Barometric or vice versa. The can result I an error that applies the wrong Air Density which degrades the accuracy of the trajectory prediction. This error increases as you increase in altitude above sea level. Density Altitude is what the bullet feels (A combination of temperature, pressure, humidity, etc., that the Kestrel outputs for you by doing the math.

    B) Density Altitude. AB (Applied Ballistics) has the ability to accept DA, but there is a down side to using DA which has to do with temperature effects. If you use only DA, the program won’t know the temperature and cannot give you the correct firing solution. Temperature effects the speed of sound (an independent effect from its effect on air density). So if you don’t input air temp along with DA, the program won’t know the speed of sound, which means it can’t properly model drag as a function of the bullets Mach number. Usually not a practical problem, and truly only shows up at transonic where the relationship between drag and Mach is critical. When using DA make sure to mark Pressure is Absolute, and to have the SA set to 0.

    5) Compass Calibration. This is a bit tricky, because anything magnetic can mess this up. Wedding Rings, Some Watches, Power Lines, Diesel Engines. Make sure you are clear of all obstructions, and you have a good Reference Compass. Never compare the two instruments side by side. The magnets will interfere with the readings. Calibrate your compass. Find a landmark, measure with each your Kestrel, Phone, and your Compass, find out what your error is, and know it. You can’t get a good wind reading, if you don’t know the difference between your direction of fire, and the winds direction. Another extremely important thing. Make sure to keep the little spacer properly in place. Lithium batteries are magnetized, and this could effect your Kestrel if you lose it, or do not use it correctly.

    Understanding Ballistic Calibration on a Kestrel
    There are two methods of truing, muzzle velocity and DSF. This is covered in more detail in the Ballistic Calibration found Here.

    When the bullet is in the supersonic region of flight, the biggest uncertainty is the muzzle velocity. You then enter your range to Target and it will give you a point of aim. You likewise enter in your true point of impact and it back calculates your muzzle velocity.

    For extreme long range shooting where the bullet is in the transonic or subsonic region of flight the drop scale factor (DSF) is calculated by entering your range and point of impact. The solver then determines the correct factor to make your point of impact perfect match your point of aim.

    At that point, now any time you shoot and in any conditions, your Kestrel will calculate an extremely accurate solution at all ranges. Also this is a simplified explanation, and by no means reflects the simplicity of what is going on behind the scenes.

    Doc
    Applied Ballistics Support Staff
    doc.beech@appliedballisticsllc.com
     
  2. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    Known fixes:

    On the Kestrel 4500 Using a Toshiba Bluetooth Interface can help with stability. Microsoft and other interfaces are known to not be as stable, or as good as Toshiba. So if you are having a buggy connection or unreliable connection move to a Toshiba Interface and Stacks. This is a known way to improve stability. On the Kestrel 5700, you can now purchase a compatible USB Dongle, which is needed if you plan to use the Kestrel 5700 connected to a PC or a MAC.

    Bluetooth Connection problems fix #2. Update to the newest firmware (if you already haven't) and then switch from Low to HIgh, or High to Low to High under bluetooth settings. This is known to improve stability for some that have had hiccups so to speak.

    Cant seem to get a connection to your PC, and you know the com port is right? Double check what your Kestrel is connected to! So your ready to use PC Software and you turn on your Kestrel, but behold it connects to a tablet or a phone without you knowing! Make sure your Kestrel is not connected to something else.

    Switching apps on a tablet or phone and connection keeps timing out or failing? Make sure that the old app released the Kestrel. I regularly switch between applications, and have been guilty of this. Make sure before you shut down say Kestrel Companion and open AB Tactical that the previously running app has released its hold so to speak. To do this make sure you disconnect. You can even turn the bluetooth off then back on if you want that extra step of confidence. Sometimes its been known to happen where someone closes an app (but its running in the background still connected) and open a new app only to find they cant connect. Always make sure the previous app has released the kestrel from its hold.

    The Kestrel 4500 cannot connect to an iPhone or iPad. This is because Apple requires extra steps in order to have a Bluetooth connection between itself and a product. The Kestrel 4500 does not have the extra needed hardware in order to do this (It would require the addition of another chip in the Kestrel itself physically). Apple simply does things ‘different’ and often times that means iOS products are not compatible with other devices. The Kestrel 5700 is iOS compatible, and will connect to an Apple device.

    Be mindful when calibrating the compass of your surroundings. Try not to do this indoors, around power lines, vehicles, anything that can throw off a compass. I have metal internal hardware in my left wrist, and I also found out its beneficial to remove your wedding ring. Yes its that sensitive (They give you a battery shield to prevent the batteries from interfering for a reason). Look around you, avoid electronics, and things that can throw off the compass when calibrating. Always have a compass to compare readings, and never hold them close to each other. Read the compass, find a reference point, and read the Kestrel. They should not anywhere near each other when checking calibration. You can usually find 3H Tritium Compasses used for 20-30$.


    Common Question "What should I look for in a Kestrel" or Buyers Guide:

    1) Look for DA or Density Altitude. This is one of the more important features for shooting. DA is basically what the bullet feels. Instead of using exact altitude formulas and gps location, DA tells you what the atmosphere feels like to the bullet as it flies. Only 4000 series and up feature Density Altitude.

    2) The more you spend now, the more you get back later. Kestrel has a buy back program. So the better model you have, the more get when you trade it in for the latest and greatest later. Customer Trade-In Program | Nielsen-Kellerman

    3) Military discounts, Kestrel does offer them, and of course Applied Ballistics always works with loyal customers on discounts.

    4) Kestrel 4500 Bluetooth. The USB cable is 100$. The Bluetooth upgrade is also 100$. The Bluetooth upgrade has a lot of advantages over the USB. Like mobile connectivity, ease of use, and its the same price. If your going to buy the USB cable to update firmware (the other option is you have to send it in), then you might as well upgrade to Bluetooth. ITS THE SAME PRICE. Only 4000 series and up have the option for Bluetooth upgrade.

    5) Kestrel 5700 Bluetooth. The USB Cable is 75$, and the Bluetooth Dongle is 40$. You must use one of these two in order to connect to a PC or Mac, but they are not necessary to connect to a mobile device. Buying the Bluetooth Dongle will not upgrade the Kestrel 5700 to a “LiNK” version. There is no way to upgrade the device itself to Bluetooth if you do not purchase it that way.

    6) Kestrel 5700 Sportsman Upgradability: The Kestrel 5700 Sportsman can be upgraded to an Elite unit. The cost is the difference in cost between the two units, plus you must purchase the compatible Bluetooth Dongle or USB Cable. This upgrade can be done yourself on either PC or Mac.

    If you need any further assitance, or have a question please feel free to ask. You may also email me at the address below.
     
  3. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Sprint HTC phone. On the login page, cannot see anything typed or extremely faded lettering in the email, password and your name spaces. Everywhere else fonts are dark and readable. Software or phone? Thanks, Hog
     
  4. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    Just a quick look at whats out there for you guys now.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    Switch to night mode. We are working on fixing this bug. It does it in the ammo notes in day time mode as well.

    I have updated some information here, as well as it now has the new firmware (Ver 4.85) and the new profile loader (Ver 32) which has the new libraries in it.
     
  6. Hollywood

    Hollywood Silver $$ Contributor

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    I looked on kestrels website and found this in the tips and tricks section.

    A Kestrel meter with Bluetooth will have the standard bluetooth symbol as shown below. If it does not have this symbol, your meter does NOT have Bluetooth. Meters without Bluetooth can NOT have it added. This is hardware and not a simple software upgrade. You would need to buy the meter with Bluetooth already installed.

    Is this older info can any of the 4000 series be upgraded to bluetooth? Does it Need to be a newer 400 series meter?
     
  7. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    This information is still correct, they have a trade in program. However the two kestrels have different hardware so Bluetooth cannot be added.
     
  8. Hollywood

    Hollywood Silver $$ Contributor

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    So it's $100 trade in/upgrade fee. Not a send it in and they can retro fit. Thank you for the clarification.
     
  9. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    The way it works, is you buy the Kestrel you want. Then you package the old one up, and return it. They then refund you a certain amount of the purchase price.
     
  10. Bert

    Bert

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    Is there anyway to enter a scope correction factor in a AB kestrel? If not is that something on the work list?
     
    Lou Tenant likes this.
  11. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    When done correctly this factors in the Ballistic Calibration.
     
  12. Bert

    Bert

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    I am referring to when you adjust your scope say 15 moa and it moves less or more than that say 14.5 moa of actual movement on the tall target test. AB has a correction factor just don't see it on the kestrel version.
     
  13. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    I understand, and when done correctly that incorporates in to the Ballistic Calibration.
     
  14. Bert

    Bert

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    You say when done correctly? What are you getting at there? So the velocity number I am looking for is 1061+ the current temp x 1.2 use the software to find the distance that the bullet is going this speed and true the velocity. Well I already measured the velocity at muzzle and it is accurate. So there should be no need to true it. The problem is the optic this was determined with a tall target test. The entire point of gathering all this data is to enter accurate data into the software to get a first round hit at distance. Why even have the correction factor in the phone version then?
     
  15. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    I say when done correctly because the shooter has to do their part to be exact. Garbage In = Garbage Out. So even a small error can cause problems. What you do, is you shoot at roughly Mach 1.2, then measure the bullets drop down the 1/10th of an inch. The actual drop, so if you had 20MOA of scope adjustment and then 1/4 MOA above the bullseye then you are at 19 3/4 MOA of true drop (This is only an example). If you were to use the same optic, and enter this information in, then the scope is accounted in to the entire system. Simply because thats the optic you did the determination with. It works, both ways (Phone and Kestrel) are correct and accurate just as long as the measurements are right.

    It is always good to have a tall target test done though, and to know if your scope is not tracking properly.
     
  16. Murp315

    Murp315

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    Just got app for my I phone and can't get the DA to load when the temp and wind pulls in just fine. What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much for any help.
    Thanks
     
  17. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Will the Applied Balistics program work in South Africa and is the coriolis effect in reverse south of the equator? Also I will be hunting at a consistent 4000'msl. Is the baseline for the program standard temp & altitude, zero msl, 59 degrees & 29.92?
     
  18. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    DA does not auto populate on the iOS version, you will need to use a Kestrel, or do the math for that one. Results are the same.
     
  19. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired

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    Yes it will work for you. You only need to input your latitude, the program will do the rest of the work for Coriolis. All Custom Drag Curve BC information is ICAO, as well as a majority of factory BC information from a large number for the bullets in the library. However some companies do still use the ASM model for BC. The AB Mobile app, you can tell it if its ICAO or ASM. If its our data its ICAO, but if the data isn't ICAO you can tell the AB Mobile, and it will correct for it.
     
  20. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Thanks. I am using the Berger 130 & 140 hunting VLDs exclusively.
     

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